Name:vvk •
Title: God sent his son die for You, You send Your son die for God •
Date posted: 01/24/08 9:41
Q: That is all about between christian and Muslim.
Tell Your idea. Thank
Name:QuebecIndieAnna •
Date: 01/26/08 23:48
A: .
Hi VVK. Welcome to the forum.
Your title is provocative.
Permit me to add a point to your comment, when you say
"It's all between Christians and Muslims".
Question :
Do you mean the event of the Talpiot tomb?
Or, do you mean that news regarding different religions is mainly
about Christians and Muslims?
You might be right that the media focuses on those two.
But even in recent history, the news reported
grave difficulties
- between Catholic Christians and Protestant Christians in places
such at Ireland.
- between conservative religious Americans and liberal religious Americans (which cause serious election difficulties 8 years ago...)
- between various tribes in Africa where much blood is in the ground because of ethno-religious difficulties.
I think that our planet is at a point where aspects of our cultures,
be those aspects "religious", "philosophical", "psychological",
are suddently important.
Question :
- do you think the increased importance has to do with a feeling
that communities feel they are loosing touch with important values?
I watched a film on TV the other night, in French.
The title was "Le Grand Voyage".
A Muslim father in his 70s, asks his son to drive him to Mecca
for his pilgrimage. At first the son says he wants his father to take the plane. Once they begin the trip, the father waits for his son to be asleep.
He steals his cell phone and throws it in the garbage.
Then, the father insists on them driving on smaller roads.
The father wants to sleep in a field, under the stars.
My father, who is Irish, French and Native Canadian, would take
our family into the forest, away from electricity, phones, TV.
We had to walk with pails to get water.
We had to chop wood.
We would work with our father to fix things and build things.
At night, we had only a candle.
We still had our house in the city, with electricity, and TV, and phones.
But, we also learned to be with our father, in the forest.
I think my fahter's values are similar to the Muslim father who wanted
to drive (not fly) with his son, to go to Mecca.
I think we need to learn to recognize in other cultures that the values are similar. It is only the culture and details of belief (dogma) that are different.
Thank you to trying to write in English, so that we can exchange.
Indie
.
Name:QuebecIndieAnna •
Date: 01/27/08 4:14
A: .
VVK
I took a course a couple of years ago with a person from the Congo.
Today, I read this article about this country that is a place of incredible tragedy.
This article says that most of the victims are children.
Even if you do not believe in a religion, that is okay.
I think a person does not have to believe in a religion, but can still
believe in humility, repentance, asking for forgiveness, patience, generosity. solicitude, compassion.
If I was in charge of the United Nations, I would ask the country of Belgium to issue a formal apology to the people of the Congo, for its part in creating different and waring tribes in that country.
I think that international efforts should bring young Congonese men from different tribes to live in compounds together in a kind of big-brother system, where some of the young men could become part of an exchange program with other countries, where they might learn to stop classifying their fellow human being according to man-made tribal divisions.
The problems between Christians and Muslims seem small in comparison with the tragic history of the country of Congo.
Indie
THE ARTICLE
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22781603/
KINSHASA, Congo - War, disease and malnutrition are killing 45,000 Congolese every m o n t h in a conflict-driven humanitarian crisis that has claimed 5.4 million victims in nearly a decade, a survey released on Tuesday said.
The International Rescue Committee (IRC), which carried out the study with Australia's Burnet Institute, said Democratic Republic of Congo's 1998-2003 war and its aftermath had caused more deaths than any other conflict since World War II.
"Congo's loss is equivalent to the entire population of Denmark or the state of Colorado perishing within a decade," George Rupp, president of the aid group, said in a statement.
The findings were published on the day Congo's government and warring eastern rebel and militia factions were due to sign a cease-fire in the hope of halting fighting in the east which has raged on since the nominal end of the war.
Rupp said that although Congo's war formally ended five years ago, "ongoing strife and poverty continue to take a staggering toll."
"The conflict and its aftermath, in terms of fatalities, surpass any other since World War II," he added.
Malaria, diarrhea, pneumonia and malnutrition, aggravated by conflict, were the top killers in Congo, the survey said.
"Most of the deaths are due to easily treatable and preventable diseases through the collapse of health systems and the disruption of livelihoods," said IRC director of global health programs Richard Brennan, one of the survey's authors.
Congo has the lowest spending on health care of any country in the world at an average of just $15 per person per year.
"If you're in the United States, we spend $6,000 per person per year," Brennan said.
The study was conducted between January 2006 and April 2007 in 14,000 households in all the country's 11 provinces.
The study updated previous surveys which estimated the toll from Congo's war at around 4 million.
Hopes for peace
The IRC said an estimated 727,000 people died in excess of normal mortality during the latest survey period.
Children under the age of 5 were the hardest hit, accounting for nearly half of all deaths despite making up 19 percent of the population.
Before the latest survey, humanitarian workers had estimated that more than 1,000 people a day were dying in Congo.
"Since our last study in 2004, there's been no change in the national rate, which is nearly 60 percent higher than the sub-Saharan average," Brennan said.
But in the east, where rebel groups, local militia, and Congo's own army prey on civilians with impunity, the mortality rate is 85 percent higher than the sub-Saharan African average.
The vast former Belgian colony's 1998-2003 war sucked in its neighbors, as foreign armies and rebel groups vied for control of the country's rich natural resources.
The conflict wrecked infrastructure already weakened by decades of neglect and corrupt leadership and forced millions to flee their homes.
A 2003 peace agreement led to the formation of a transitional government and multi-party elections were held in 2006, won by President Joseph Kabila.
Rupp said he hoped the peace deal for the east, due to be signed on Tuesday by the government, TUTSI rebels and Mai Mai militias, could finally draw a line under Congo's crisis.
"We hope this week's PEACE AGREEMENT in North Kivu will mean an end to the hostilities and a restart of RECONCILIATION and recovery efforts," he said.
The IRC called for security reforms, increased spending on basic services like HEALTH care and continued support for the 17,000-strong United Nations peacekeeping mission in Congo.
"Recovery from conflict is clearly a protracted process, particularly when it's on the back of decades ... of economic and political decline," Brennan said.
"There are no quick turnarounds ... So the international community needs to be in there for the long haul," he added.
.
Name:luke64 •
Date: 01/31/08 22:46
A: They have a lot in common.
But Jesus himself never said he was God or Worship him in the whole Bible. (any version) You will never find a single clear-cut verse in the Bible where said it. Don't forget God has a lot of suns and children in the bible.
check out
http://peacetv.in/
Sky channel 823
WorldTV Channel 65
Ahmed Deedat
Name:Anchorite •
Date: 02/02/08 2:52
A: Dear Q/I/A
Don't waste you time on a VVK.
Name:vvk •
Date: 02/02/08 7:35
A: Hi QuebeclndieAnna
Thank You very much for Your time and all the commens. It's very valvuafull to me, be back later, thank again all.
Name:QuebecIndieAnna •
Date: 02/02/08 18:32
A: Achorite,
When i go to the trouble to speak to another human being, I consider that I am n e v e r waisting my time. Ever.
Indie
Name:sam •
Date: 02/05/08 21:18
A: vvk open this post:
"God sent his son die for You, You send Your son die for God "
and follow it by his opinion:
"That is all about between christian and Muslim. "
Hi vvk, The last word IN your post came from "INDIE", and she was right when she said: "When i go to the trouble to speak to another human being, I consider that I am n e v e r waisting my time. Ever."
Indie never , ever wasted her time and so is Sam and the many others who find that they are willing to learn from the others and about the others.
Anchorite , even when you spoke only 4 words, YOU DID WASTE YOUR TIME.
All people are equals, and everyone has his/her opinions, and everyone has his/her own thoughts, and everyone has his/her own questions, and everyone has his/her own answers, and they had the right to bring all of them {opinion...thoughts....questios...answers} whenever they like, and that what we call "DIALOGUE", and the dialogue/ discussion between us {ALL}, is the first step to undrstand each other, and to work together to come to the truth.
Back to question the first part of the title , "God sent his son " ?
God ....His son {Jesus}... Jesus is God...Jesus is one of three persons {trinity}, all of them one God!!!.
During the last few years, and reading the different opinion of many Christians about Jesus and God, and reading the words of Jesus, and the letters of Paul, all that make me confused about the truth!.
Here are few lines from what I learned:
Antimoz, from Georgia..."I belive only in the one holy catholica and apostalic church, that is the body of christ contained by people (by us)..."..."Of caurse Jesus is the god.... Father, Jesus and holy spirit is the one.. The holy trinity... the holy combination..."
Panluna said in previous post, "I don't beleive that Jesus is God, but He is the son of God"
Mary ann collins {a catholic Nun who became protestant} wrote:
"I believe in trinity,... I don't understand how it work."!!!
Paul, preached the formula "son of God" FOR THE FIRST TIME IN DAMASCUS AFTER JESUS DEATH !!!,
Emperor Constantene + few bishops IN ROME CREATED THE FORMULA OF THE TRINITY {God with three persons} AFTER OVER 325 YEARS FROM JESUS DEATH, and after many years of DEBATING !!!.
The book by MICHAEL BAIGENT, "THE JESUS PAPER" , exposed the greatest COVE-UP in history when it mentioned THAT JESUS WASN'T THOUGHT TO BE DEVINE UNTIL LONG AFTER HIS ERA, and the new testament story is pretty much ONE GIG FRAUD.
Bishop John S. Spong wrote: "The Bible full of contradictions and errors", and "The gospels cannot be trusted to be reliable."
The catholic online wrote, : "Mary possesses a unique relationship with ALL THREE PERSONS OF THE TRINITY, thereby giving Her the title of queenship. SHE WAS CHOSEN BY GOD THE FATHER TO BE THE MOTHER OF HIS SON {WE KNOW THAT JESUS IS THE GOD!!!}, GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT {THAT IS JESUS} CHOSE HER TO BE HIS VIRGINAL SPOUSE {IS MARY THE SPOUSE OF JESUS THE GOD?}, GOD THE SON CHOSE HER TO BE HIS MOTHER."!!!!!????
My question is, "IS MARY THE SPOUSE OF JESUS THE GOD, AND AT THE SAME TIME THE MOTHER OF THE SON OF GOD, JESUS THE GOD?"
Jesus said : "For whoever does the will of my father who is in heaven {GOD}, HE IS MY BROTHER AND SISTER AND MOTHER.: M-12:50
"glorify your Father which is in heaven"..."So that you may be SONS OF YOUR FATHER who is in heaven." {not noe SON, but SONS}.
I am somehow confused, {the Christian Nun was confused and did not understand it too}.
There is nothing came from Jesus words as to mention He is the God or part of God , and not even the son of God.
You should remember that Jesus mentioned Himself as the son of man 89 times in the for gospels. the son of God was mentioned abot adam too , "ADAM, THE SON OF GOD" L-3:38..... "blessed are the peacemakers, for THEY SHALL BE CALLED SONS OF GOD" M-5:9
Jesus said: "WHEN YOU LIFT UP THE SON OF MAN, THEN YOU WILL KNOW THAT I AM HE" {Jesus tells you the truth about Himself, are you telling the world that Jesus did not speak the truth ?, and he does not know the truth about Himself !, but Paul and the Romans knew better and they are telling the truth!!!!!.}
Here is the truth, "NEGLECTING THE COMMANDMENT OF GOD, YOU HOLD TO THE TRADITION OF MEN", "YOU ARE EXPERTS AT SETTING ASIDE THE COMMANDMENT OF GOD IN ORDER TO KEEP YOUR TRADITION." Mark-7:89.
Did you forget what the first commandment is ? "YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER gods BEFORE ME.
And Jesus said, "THE ONE AND ONLY GOD"..."THAT THEY MAY KNOW YOU, THE ONLY TRUE GOD."..."THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD"
Another question, " ARE THE CHRISTIAN CHURCHES TEACHINGS REPRESENT JESUS TEACHINGS OR PAUL & THE ROMANS TEACHINGS?.
And about the question, "That is all about between christian and Muslim".
I saiy, "The people of the churches created this notion, this concept, this idea, and their sole intention is to drive away their followers from looking for the truth specially when it comes from the Mulims part, and it worked well up to now."
I hope that those who live in the 21st century use today's methods, from science to fact to logic in finding the truth, and away from the empty philosophy which the churches created, and which confused the Nun and Me and the catholic online and millions others around the world like us.
THIS FORUMS , It is all about EXCHANGING KNOWLEDGE. WE all learn from each other on this forums, except for those who find it a waste of time, for they will never learn anything here or anywhere else.
LOVE & PEACE SHOULD COME FIRST, THEN SECOND,THE SEARCH FOR THE TRUTH TO FOLLOW.
The truth will not come through hate and war, and that is a fact.
God bless you.
Name:Panluna •
Date: 02/07/08 0:07
A: Hi Sam,
That's quite a post! I believe that all lifeforms are the 'chidren' of the Creator/Universe/God.Jesus became a god three hundred plus years after his death when the leaders of various "churches" attended a council meeting called by Constatine in Nicea to determine his status for deification and what to include in the Bible.
Name:sam •
Date: 02/07/08 23:09
A: Hi Panluna,
Thank you.
In the post , "the Jerusalem conference" there was an interesting dialogue between me and Indie Ann, and it is about the 'Crucifixion' & the 'Helper' as this was mentioned in J-16: 7-14.
I will appreciate it very much, if you visit that post and give me your opinion.
I cannot judge myself if I am right 100%, so I will be glad to hear the judgment of the others and specially YOU.
God bless you.
Name:vvk •
Date: 02/08/08 6:02
A: First of all thank you all your opinions sharing, for me , for every one who has the chance to read this forum,
God sent his son (Jesus) to die for you,
That is most Christian and Catholic, beleive.
But with me some Muslim (not all) They think do whatever for their religious, even die, they will go haven,(Die for God) so that some of them killing themself and a lot of the others. like september 11even, or some happen in south of Thailand now, and a lot ,a lot more in the history of some of country,
With me that is very wrong though. Everythings bad is never has good result. go ahead tell us more about Your idea. All is very hepfull and give us more knowleage...
Thank Again for all.
Name:Panluna •
Date: 02/08/08 19:07
A: Wk,
The idea of Jesus dying for our sins etc was a church doctirine introduced while the early Church members were developing a multitude of plausible explainations for misinterpretations of the early New Testament.The truth about Jesus is that he lived a mortal life and died a horrible death.He was outstanding in a spiritual sense but as stories go many of the tales are fabrications or stretches of the imagination --in an attempt to explain the unexplainable --contributed during the infancy of the church in it's early centuries.I believe in miracles as I've witnessed my share of "vistors" and have experienced many strong spiritual moments but my search is to come to terms with a plausible explaination for the workings of the universe and the mysterious ways the spirit world contacts and guides all of us.This great big puzzle can be percieved in many different ways and it's pieces fit differently for each one of us.And faith can lead blindly or can be comforting.And the truth can hurt or free a person from the bondages of deceit.
I believe that Jesus was a saviour of humanity through his teachings ( and so was Buddha among other spiritual teachers) but I don't believe that he was the Messiah.Generaly when a rumour or story goes around by word of mouth it very seldom ends up the same way as it started.Most of the time changes and personal interpretations are added.
Name:Panluna •
Date: 02/08/08 19:21
A: Hi Sam,
I had some trouble finding the post you mentioned.
Name:sam •
Date: 02/09/08 15:00
A: Hi Panluna,
To find my post:
-choose "Theological Implications"
-then "the Jerusalem conference"
-after go to the posts "sam • Date: 01/30/08 19:27 " & "sam • Date: 02/07/08 16:37 "
They are long posts, but they are of some interest since they are tackling the question of Jesus "resurrection and ascension", and I think it is a part from the general discusions about the tomb of Jesus.
Thank you. God bless you.
Name:sam •
Date: 02/09/08 16:40
A: Hello vvk, Panluna, and the others.
About the question , "that is all about between the Christian and Muslim" , I can add to it another question , "who is wrong and who is right in regards to the teaching that came from their books (the holy books)?.
---Do you still believe in a book after you find it contains wrong informations just because you been told it is a holy book and the word of God?
1-The Bible mentioned (in Genesis) that the earth was created before the sun and the stars.
Question (A)- Millions accepted that as true for many years, but do you believe that is true?
2- The Quran mentioned "24:40 Or [they are] like darkness within AN UNFATHOMABLE SEA WHICH IS COVERED BY WAVES, UPON WHICH ARE WAVES, OVER WHICH ARE CLOUDS.
Question (B) - Do you believe that there are other waves under the surface waves in the sea !!!, and if that can be true or wrong information?
3- Few years ago the scientists found strange area in the universe and they gave it the term "BLACK HOLE", which later on , and thanks to NASA scientists and the Hubble scope, they find that the black hole is a huge star. Here some information from NASA about it:
"But in the case of black holes that form when their parent stars explode as a supernova, a record established less than two weeks ago has just been shattered. Black holes are objects with such strong gravity that nothing, not even light, can escape their grasp."
*NOT EVEN LIGHT CAN ESCAPE THEIR GRASP !!!*
"These monsters formed early in the universe’s history by a mechanism that remains unknown. They contain millions or even billions of times the mass of our Sun, and are thus known as "supermassive" black holes."
Question (C) - Do you believe that these information from NASA are true, and do you trust NASA scientists and their discoveries ?
Hopping to recieve an answer from all of you, on all the question A, B, and C.
I did introduce the question about the waves to our freind Indie Anna, and her answer was "NO, NO WAY" there are no waves under the surface waves !!!.
God bless you.
Name:vvk •
Date: 02/10/08 8:23
A: Hi Sam
Thank You for Your post, I'm totaly agree with You.But with some people whatever in their religion teaching, they're away feel right.
Anyway it's still good for them,and this world. don't You think so?
Name:sam •
Date: 02/10/08 15:37
A: Hi vvk,
You agree with me, thank you, but you DID NOT answer my questions, A, B, and C.
I do appreciate your answer.
God bless you.
Name:vvk •
Date: 02/11/08 3:23
A: ( with matirial world my answer is)( I'm not English speaker)
Question A
no with me
question B
no
question C
I do belive with the scientist, but they are not alway right, years later, they might find out some things difference than now.
And some time in the religions they explaint it differencely.
Religion cannot exist. . . . Science without religion is lame, a religion without science is blind.' (Albert Einstein )
