Name:JMD •
Title: Was/is Jesus a Gnostic? •
Date posted: 05/17/07 0:53
Q: from the book:
“Gospel Truth: The New Image of Jesus Emerging from Science and History and Why It Matters”
Russell Shorto (1997)
“The death of the more individualistic and mystical form of Christianity can be assigned a date: October 28, 312. On that day the armies of two competitors for the title of Roman Emperor clashed on a bridge ten miles north of Rome…
“…That day, in the Battle of the Milvian Bridge, Constantine’s invading army crushed the larger force of Maxentius, defender of Rome. Constantine became emperor. The Empire became Christian. The world changed.
The bishops of the orthodox church, who had been persecuted by Rome as recently as nine years before, now controlled the most powerful army the world had ever known. They set out at once to secure their position. This meant that Jews began suffering for their ‘folly’ in not recognizing Jesus as the Messiah; and it meant the death of gnostic Christianity.
One of the major results of scholarship of the past few decades has been the determination that gnosticism was not an oddball heretical development of the second and third centuries, but in fact has a pedigree that extends back as far as that of orthodox Christianity. The reason the one is now considered ‘Christianity’ while the other died out as a heresy has more to do with Constantine’s dream and subsequent rise to emperor than with any authoritative claim to represent the authentic message of Jesus."
"The proto-gnostics.. insisted that belief based on a bodily resurrection was a 'faith of fools.' For them, individual ecstatic experience of Christ was all that mattered. The receiver of Christ became initiated into the mystery of God, a secret wisdom; no broker or middleman was required. As it developed, gnosticism went even further away from the traditions of Judaism.
As Pagels writes: "Orthodox Jews and Christians insist that a chasm separates humanity from its creator: God is wholly other. But some of the gnostics who wrote these gospels contradict this: self-knowledge is knowledge of God; the self and the divine are identical." The Jesus of the gnostic Gospel of Thomas makes this clear: 'Whoever drinks from my mouth will become like me; I myself shall become that person....' "
"I don't need a church to broker my faith; I can know God immediately. And if I know myself, I know God, for God and I are one. If this sounds somehow modern it isn't because many gnostic churches have opened up in the 1990s, but because the idea behind gnosticism - individual inspiration supersedes human institutions - never died out... And if this idea of a personal relationship with God also sounds anciently familiar, it should. 'The Kingdom of God is within you.'
What set the historical Jesus apart from the crowd of first-century prophets if not his radical message that individuals could come to experience God directly? That gnosticism mirrors this basic notion of Jesus is also an argument in favor of its direct link to him."
"This postulated proto-gnostic influence on Paul is another area that has made orthodox Christian theologians uncomfortable for centuries. If, as they claimed, Paul inherited the tradition that we see in the gospels...- and if what later came to be known as gnosticism was just a heretical mis-reading of Jesus' message, why does Paul break out in some places into what sounds very much like gnostic mysticism? Paul writes of entering a trance and being taken up to heaven, where he 'heard things that are not to be told, that no mortal is permitted to repeat.' Elsewhere, he differentiates between two kinds of Christian knowledge: the ordinary knowledge of Jesus' death and resurrection, and a 'secret and hidden' knowledge which is only for the advanced."
"..Christian theologians have written off these passages, but to scholars like Robinson they add further proof to the theory that a wisdom tradition dates to Jesus' own lifetime - that those who compiled the first version of the Gospel of Thomas were also among Jesus' followers, had just as much authority as Peter and the others, and have just as much likelihood of having gotten to what Jesus 'really meant' as the orthodox tradition."
Name:JMD •
Date: 05/18/07 11:23
A: June Singer [Gnostic Book of Hours]
“In the beginning is Oneness, undifferentiated Unity. All exists within the One, and the One nourishes the all. But the One is more than existence, it is also consciousness. It has desire and thought, and these act to separate the One into the two. The primal unity is broken when the First Thought comes forth. She is female. We are told that nothing can occur in the world of time and space until the Feminine, whose attribute is forethought (Pronoia), or intuition, is activated. Without this ability to look forward, to imagine, nothing can be conceived. The feminine principle is the active one, drawing forth the spark that will beget life from the One who is unbeggoten. But for this life to be perfect – that is, whole – both the desire of the masculine principle and the receptivity of the feminine principle must be in accord with one another…
…We come into being physically as male or as female, but psychologically and spiritually we are androgynous… Often we forget that this potential exists within us, and we identify with our biological sex more than with our psychological and spiritual androgyny. It is then that the masculine aspect and the feminine aspect come into conflict, and we find ourselves supporting one and rejecting the other."
Jesus: “…when you make the male and the female one and the same so that the male not be male nor the female female…”
"We are told here that in our essence and in our spiritual lives there is no difference between female and male, for each of us carries the spark of the divine in which male and female are united as a single one."
“I am a jealous God and there is no God beside me.”
"When the invisible Sophia looks down upon the impiety of the chief ruler, she cries out, ‘You are mistaken, Samael’ – that is, ‘blind god.’ Through her wisdom, she offers to all humanity hope in a higher God above the jealous one.
Endowed with the wisdom of the Mother, Yaldabaoth ‘knows’ of the higher God, but he does not know that he knows. He has knowledge, but he does not have access to his knowledge; therefore he is ignorant. His plight resembles our own human condition when we do not have gnosis. Then we only believe what we see, or what has been proven to our satisfaction. Since it does not occur to us that we may be endowed with supernal wisdom, we do not open ourselves to the mystery of the Spirit that invisibly permeates the created world. So long as we limit our explorations and activities to the visible world as though that were all that existed, we must remain blind to the transcendent beauty of the eternal world."
Name:Ladyhawk •
Date: 05/18/07 13:02
A: So where did "wives, be submissive to your husbands" come from?
Name:Ladyhawk •
Date: 05/18/07 13:47
A: Oh wait! Let me guess! That would be PAUL, wouldn't it?
Name:JMD •
Date: 05/19/07 1:27
A: Ladyhawk ! You brave soul, daring to come into this thread. :-) Of course it came from Paul. But as noted before, institutionalized Christianity was more about politics, Paul and Peter, than Jesus and his teachings and James the Just who was 'supposed' to be left in charge. Ok, now brace yourself .... [and remember, nobody has to agree - fire away if you wish!]
Per Elaine Pagels, "Beyond Belief: The Secret Gospel of Thomas"
"Although Mark and the other evangelists use titles that Christians today often take as indicating Jesus' divinity, such as 'son of God' and 'messiah,' in Mark's own time these titles designated 'human' roles. The Christians who translated these titles into English fifteen centuries later believed they showed that Jesus was uniquely related to God, and so they capitalized them - a linguistic convention that does not occur in Greek. But Mark's contemporaries would most likely have seen Jesus as a man - although one gifted, as Mark says, with the power of the holy spirit, and divinely appointed to rule in the coming kingdom of God."
"The Lost Gospel: The Book of Q and Christian Origins"
Burton L. Mack
"Once upon a time, before there were gospels of the kind familiar to readers of the New Testament, the first followers of Jesus wrote another kind of book. Instead of telling a dramatic story about Jesus' life, their book contained only his teachings.They lived with these teachings ringing in their ears and thought of Jesus as the founder of their movement. But their focus was not on the person of Jesus or his life and destiny.
They were engrossed with the social program that was called for by his teachings. Thus their book was not a gospel of the Christian kind, namely a narrative of the life of Jesus as the Christ. Rather it was a gospel of Jesus' sayings.."
"Then the book was lost. Perhaps the circumstances changed, or the people changed, or their memories and imagination of Jesus changed.."
"It makes some difference whether the founder of a movement is remembered for his teachings, or for his deeds and destiny. For the first followers of Jesus, the importance of Jesus as the founder of their movement was directly related to the significance they attached to his teachings... But as the Jesus movement spread, groups in different locations and changing circumstances began to think about the kind of life Jesus must have lived... This shift from interest in Jesus' teachings to questions about Jesus' person, authority, and social role eventually produced a host of different mythologies."
"According to the story line of the narrative gospels, Jesus was destined to come into conflict with the rulers of the world because he appeared in the world as the very son of God. This conflict escalated to a climax in the crucifixion of Jesus as the Christ, but would only be finally resolved when Jesus as the resurrected son of God appeared at the end of time to judge the world and establish a new social order as the reign or kingdom of God.."
"Even after the narrative gospels became the rage, the sayings gospel was still intact. It was still being copied and read with interest by ever-widening circles. And it was available in slightly different versions in the several groups that continued to develop within the Jesus movement. Eventually, the narrative gospels prevailed as the preferred portrayal for Christians, and the sayings gospel finally was lost to the historical memory of the Christian church."
"Were it not for the fact that two authors of narrative gospels incorporated sizable portions of the sayings gospel into their stories of Jesus' life, the saying gospel of the first followers of Jesus would have disappeared without a trace... But Matthew and Luke each had a copy of the sayings gospel, and the material each copied from it largely over-lapped. It was this fortuitous coincidence that made it possible in recent times to recover the book, even though the sayings now sound like the pronouncements of the son of God instead of the teachings of Jesus."
"... The Gospel of Thomas looked very much like Q. Here then was a text closely related to Q that proved the existence of the genre in early Christian circles. It also provided yet another text of the sayings of Jesus for comparative study."
"...The followers of Jesus responsible for the Gospel of Thomas had grown accustomed to the idea of Jesus as a sage and had given a great deal of thought to his teachings. For them, the significance of his teachings lay in their capacity to enable an individual to withstand society's pressures to conform. They had meditated deeply on his sayings and taken seriously the challenge to disassociate from society and develop self-awareness, self-confidence, and self-sufficiency. When the Q people formed groups, started their mission, and then retreated behind a smokescreen of apocalyptic pronouncements when their mission failed, the Thomas people decided to go their own way. When Mark's community tried to imagine itself as a determining factor in the course of human history, the Thomas people thought that the legacy of
Jesus had been betrayed."
"The Coptic Gospel of Thomas was a translation from a Greek original that [some] scholars now date to the last quarter of the first century. It contains a truly amazing collection of the sayings of Jesus. When compared with Q, approximately one-third of the sayings in the Gospel of Thomas have parallels in Q, and about 60 percent are from the Q1 layer. This shows that there must have been some association with the Q people during that period. From that point on, however, the Thomas tradition is marked by a strong sense of independence."
"The reference to his disciples is, for the most part, collective. But Peter, Matthew and James are mentioned, as are Thomas, Salome, and Mary. Thomas, Salome, and Mary say the right things, ask the right questions, and so are privileged to be part of an inner circle, as is James who is spoken of in his absence. These figures obviously represent the true followers of Jesus and thus reflect the Thomas group in the text. But Peter, Matthew, and 'the disciples' usually ask the wrong questions and have to be corrected.."
"...Over and over again the disciples ask when the kingdom will come, how it will be, and whether they will be able to enter. In every case Jesus tells them that they have completely misunderstood his teachings about the kingdom. The Kingdom, Jesus explains, is already present, and if they knew who they were, namely the true disciples of Jesus, they would know not to ask..."
"..But just as there was a shift in Q from aphoristic instruction to prophetic and apocalyptic discourse, so there was a shift in the Thomas tradition from aphoristic injunctions to another distinctive style.. Highly metaphoric and largely enigmatic, the teachings of Jesus to his disciples tell them that true knowledge is self-knowledge, and that true self-knowledge is a state of being untouched by the world of human
affairs, a state of being in touch with a noetic world of divine light and stability."
-----
Gnosis=knowledge :D
"Then took they up stones to cast at her: but JMD hid herself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by."
Name:Panluna •
Date: 05/19/07 12:36
A: Jesus was Hebrew and followed the Essene tradition.I believe gnostiscm developed after his death and was probably the first tradition of the new faith.The Mandeaens include his teachings.And the Cathars were persecuted for it.
Name:Ladyhawk •
Date: 05/19/07 13:32
A: Much of interest here. And Panluna seems to have the way of it. That makes sense, I think.
But now, tell me: the gnostic belief system teaches that God is within each of us? Is there then no Other in this scenario? No Creator, no power or intelligence beyond ourselves?
Are we seen, then, as a randomly developed species of specific intelligence that has (in what would appear to be some prideful arrogance) declared itself the Power of earth?
Or do they say we have been created to share in the Creation? To know as God knows?
No criticism, just trying to understand. I am in sync with some of these ideas, but I can't quite figure out if God exists as an actual entity in the gnostic perspectives. Also, I get nervous with the idea of men assuming god-like powers. Aren't the Scientologists looking forward to the return of some alien powers who will confer on them the answers to all the questions??
Name:JMD •
Date: 05/20/07 2:28
A: I disagree, Panluna, but each to their own. After all, we are on different spiritual paths. :)
Ladyhawk: "Aren't the Scientologists looking forward to the return of some alien powers who will confer on them the answers to all the questions??"
hmmm... have no idea, that's not a cult I read up on - however, I have heard that Tom Cruise is their messiah. Mark Morford said as much [that's likely where I heard it from. :b ]
"Why do you call me, 'Master, master,' and not do what I say?"
"Nothing is hidden that will not be made known, or secret that will not come to light.
What I tell you in the dark, speak in the light. And what you hear as a whisper, proclaim on the housetops."
"Someone from the crowd said to him, 'Teacher, tell my brother to divide the inheritance with me.' But he said to him, 'Sir, who made me your judge or lawyer?' "
"Sell your possessions and give to charity [alms]. Store up treasure for yourselves in a heavenly account, where moths and rust do not consume, and where thieves cannot break in and steal.
For where your treasure is, there your heart will also be."
"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened for you. For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks the door will be opened."
Name:Panluna •
Date: 05/20/07 16:49
A: JMD,
Which part do you disagree with me about?
Name:JMD •
Date: 05/21/07 4:35
A: Gospel of Q:
How fortunate are those who are crying; they will laugh.
I am telling you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.
Don't be afraid of those who can kill the body, but can't kill the soul.
And why do you worry about clothing? Think of the way lilies grow. They do not work or spin. But even Solomon in all his splendor was not as magnificent. If God puts beautiful clothes on the grass that is in the field today and tomorrow is thrown into a furnace, won't he put clothes on you, faint hearts?
Salt is good; but if salt loses its taste, how can it be restored? It is not good for either the land or the manure pile. People just throw it out.
The kingdom of God is like yeast which a woman took and hid in three measures of flour until it leavened the whole mass.
How fortunate are the eyes that see what you see! for I'm telling you that many prophets and kings longed to see what you see and did not see it, and to hear what you hear and did not hear it.
A student is not better than his teacher. It is enough for a student to be like his teacher.
To what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the marketplace and calling to each other: 'We played the pipes for you and you did not dance.' 'We sang a dirge and you did not wail.' For John did not come eating or drinking, and they are saying, 'He is demon possessed.' The son of man has come eating and drinking, and they say, 'Look at him, a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.' But in spite of what they say, wisdom's children show that she is right.
What do you think? If a man had a hundred sheep and lost one of them, wouldn't he leave the ninety-nine and go look for the one that was lost? And if he should find it, I tell you, he will rejoice more over that one sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray.
Gospel of Thomas:
Jesus said, "Come unto me, for my yoke is easy and my lordship is mild, and you will find repose for yourselves."
Jesus said, "If the flesh came into being because of spirit, it is a wonder. But if spirit came into being because of the body, it is a wonder of wonders. Indeed, I am amazed at how this great wealth has made its home in this poverty."
Jesus said, "Let him who seeks continue seeking until he finds. When he finds, he will become troubled. When he becomes troubled, he will be astonished, and he will rule over the all."
Jesus said, "Blessed are the solitary and elect, for you will find the kingdom. For you are from it, and to it you will return."
Jesus said, "Seek and you will find. Yet, what you asked me about in former times and which I did not tell you then, now I do desire to tell, but you do not inquire after it."
Jesus said, "The kingdom is like a shepherd who had a hundred sheep. One of them, the largest, went astray. He left the ninety-nine and looked for that one until he found it. When he had gone to such trouble, he said to the sheep, 'I care for you more than the ninety-nine.' "
Name:JMD •
Date: 05/21/07 5:01
A: From "The Hiram Key" C. Knight and R. Lomas:
"There are major consequences of a literal belief in the resurrection of Jesus's body which later ascended into heaven. All the authority of the Roman Catholic Church stems from the experiences of Jesus's [physical] resurrection by the twelve [so-called] 'favoured' apostles.." ['a blacker falsehood was never uttered..']. "..an experience which was closed to all newcomers following his ascent into Heaven. This closed, [minded ] unchallengeable experience ... had enormous implications for the political structure of the early Church."
"It restricted the leadership to a small circle of persons who held a position of incontestable authority and conferred on this group the right to ordain future leaders as their successors." [yet they left James the Just and Mary/Mariamne off the list :|
"This resulted in the view of religious authority which has survived to this day..."
"...It was very much in the interests of the rulers of the early Church to accept the [physical] resurrection as a literal truth because of the benefits it conferred on them in the form of an uncontested [male] source of authority. Since no one of a later generation could have access to Christ in the way that the apostles did during his lifetime and at his resurrection, every believer must look to the Church at Rome, [except Gnostics :D ] which the apostles [they just 'conveniently' forgot about the 'apostle to the apostles' Mary Magdalene] are said to have founded, and its bishops for authority."
"The Gnostic Church called this literal view of the resurrection 'the faith of fools', [since Gnostics are more intelligent and spiritually enlightened :b] claiming those who announced that their dead master had come physically back to life confused a spiritual truth with an actual event. The Gnostics quoted the secred tradition of Jesus's teaching as recorded in his speech to his disciples in Matthew:
'To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.'
The Gnostics recognised that their theory of secret knowledge, to be gained by their own efforts, also had political implications. It suggest that whoever 'see the Lord' through inner vision can claim that his or her own authority equals or surpasses that of the apostles and their successors."
Irenaenus: "They consider themselves mature so that no one can be compared with them in the greatness of their gnosis, [heh :b] not even if you mention Peter or Paul" [they were losers] ..they imagine that they themselves have discovered more than the apostles... " [again, you left James and Mary Mag off the list.]
"Gnostic teaching was subversive of this order [orthodox hierarchy heresy]. "..it [Gnostic teaching] claimed to offer to every initiate a means of direct access to God of which the priests and bishops themselves might be ignorant."
[as Homer Simpson would say 'heh, heh, suckers.']
"We now knew that the interpretation of the resurrection had been a tremendous source of controversy in the early Christian Church and that there had been a secret tradition concerning living spiritual resurrections connected with a group of Christians labelled Gnostics and denounced for political reasons as heretics, because their interest in gaining knowledge undermined the authority of the bishops of the orthodox Church."
:D
"A fundamental difficulty for the Church lies in the fact that the central Christian myth predates Jesus Christ.... So close was the story of Mithra, another cult popular in the Roman Empire, that the Church fathers identified it as the work of the devil, intended deliberately to parody the story of Christ. "
*laughs*
"Mithra: born of a virgin in a stable on 25 December around 600 BC. His resurrection was celebrated at Easter... Mithraism is a Syrian offshoot of the more ancient Persian cult of Zoroaster, which was introduced into the Roman Empire about 67 BC. Its doctrines included baptism, a sacramental meal, a savior god who died and rose again to act as a mediator between man and god, a [physical] resurrection, a last judgement and heaven and hell. Its devotees recognised the divinity of the Emperor."
"A problem for mainline Christianity is the belief that Jesus was the offspring of a magical mating of Yahweh and Mary." ..this god and woman union is an ancient necessity for the parentage of all would-be man-gods in Middle Eastern cultures. The justification for this claim amongst Christians is taken from the title 'son of God' - which was an ancient title for everyone who was claiming kingship."
Name:JMD •
Date: 05/21/07 18:44
A: "The Virgin Birth
Based on the argument that Jesus was born on 15 September 7 BC":
"The Magi were astrologers, and astrological concepts informed their thinking. In the quest for a messiah they would use astrological principles to seek guidance from the stars and planets."
"In 7 BC a triple conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn took place.."
"..a triple conjunction of Jupiter-Saturn in Pisces only occurs once every 900 years or so.. In addition to this, the sun had just entered Pisces at the vernal equinox, and a new age was beginning."
"..To continue with the astronomical and astrological significance of the sky on the night of 15 September 7 BC, the sun was in the constellation of Virgo on that evening. As anyone who looks at newspaper horoscopes knows, people are grouped according to their sun signs.. If Jesus was born on 15 September 7 BC he would, according to this simplistic aspect of astrology, come under the sign of Virgo, the Virgin. In other words, he would be described as having the 'sun in Virgo' or being a 'son of Virgo.' John Addey, who tried to work backwards to calculate an astrological birth chart for Christ, said: 'The symbolism of the Pisces-Virgo polarity is so intimately involved with the life of Jesus and his religion (not only have we the Virgin birth but the word Bethlehem means 'house of bread' - the sixth house, Virgo, the Virgin with the ear of corn), that we must certainly expect these signs to be strong.'
"To talk of a Pisces-Virgo polarity is an astrological way of saying that the two constellations are diametrically opposed along the zodiac. Some art historians have drawn attention to the use of this polarity in religious art."
"The language of astrology is the language of symbolism. In an astrological context, to describe Jesus as 'son of the virgin' is to say that he was born with the sun in Virgo. Hans Sandauer discussed this in his book 'History Controlled by the Stars.' .."
"Mythology also sheds light on the description of Christ as the Son of the Virgin. Joseph Campell, in his extremely important four-volume work entitled 'The Masks of God' makes it very clear that the religious concept of a 'son of God born of a virgin' is far older than Christianity itself. Many religious themes and motifs from both the Greek classics and the Bible can be demonstrated as having their roots in ancestral ideas as old as the Bronze Age civilisation of Mesopotamia (c. 2000 BC). Concepts such as the virgin birth of a son of God, along with many other themes which include the deluge, departure from God's garden, and trees of life and knowledge, originate in much more ancient cultures than the Hellenistic world of the Magi and Jesus."
"In earlier times, the suggestion that Jesus was not miraculously conceived by Mary would have been considered heretical, and for some people it still is. In history, those who questioned orthodoxy were burnt at the stake. However, since the nineteenth century, which Campbell calls 'That epochal century of almost unbelievable spiritual and technological transformations', it has become necessary to look at the sources of religious ideas in a new way."
"Today, Christianity embodies differing sects with differing interpretations of theology, and the Church as a whole is finding its teaching seriously challenged from many quarters.. For some Christians, to doubt the historical truth of the Bible is to be unchristian, while for others it is possible to recognise this story as a reflection of ancient pre-Christian themes which represent deeply important psychological or spiritual insights. It is also possible to see that for the early Christians trying to establish a foundation of doctrine, these legendary stories were utilised to give form to this hugely significant expression of faith called Christianity."
"Whether one regards the Christian story as a matter of fact, or as something which possesses a somewhat different value and significance, for the Magi and the people who expected a messiah, Christianity as the term is understood today did not exist."
"The Birth of Christ:Exploding the Myth"
I'm just a Jesus folk myself. A gnostic one, but a Jesus person all the same... the more I meditate on some of those parables and sayings, the more I get out of them... it's ever unfolding for one's inner world. awesome...
Name:JMD •
Date: 05/21/07 23:03
A: Look at this one, from Gospel of Thomas:
Jesus said, "Where there are three gods, they are gods. Where there are two or one, I am with him."
I like meditating on this one:
Jesus said, "If those who lead you say to you, 'See the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."
Regarding James the Just/Righteous in Gospel of Thomas:
The disciples said to Jesus, "We know that you will depart from us. Who is to be our leader?"
Jesus said to them, "Wherever you are, you are to go to James the righteous, for whose sake heaven and earth came into being."
Jesus said, "Many times have you desired to hear these words which I am saying to you, and you have no one else to hear them from. There will be days when you will look for me and will not find me."
No one else at all? Not even James? [while 'inside' the kingdom if Jesus isn't around, I'll maybe meditate on James showing up, since heaven and earth came into being for his sake?! Wow! Is that not the greatest thing Jesus has ever said about someone?! ]
Because that makes me wonder even more .... regarding "The Gospel of Thomas" - could James and Thomas be one and the same?!! :0 Not saying it is the truth, but I mean, look what Jesus says, yet James isn't around, in Gospel of Thomas? The twin Thomas is though ... James has been called a twin, before, I think... hmm.. Well, if there 'is' any truth at all to that, then it's way, way, cool ! Because James got ripped off big time in the NT - only a small, wee, book of 5 short chapters, or something, yet I've seen this great big 'tome' of a book before, in some of the bookstores I've been to, and it's all to do with the writings of James!
Still, though not much from James in the NT, there is one part which I think is some of the wisest words spoken in the Bible, and it's very revealing for the days we live in now, as well as telling about the past. It's about wisdom:
"But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish."
Which is pretty much what has been going on, for centuries, though for awhile now, many have been seeking for the truth, in various ways, which is wonderful of course. Now, that some are striving for tolerance, egalitarianism, enlightenment, and so on - much of which we've been discussing/arguing about here, and which many of us also work towards in various ways, thus James next words are coming true...slowly:
"But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. And the fruit of the righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace."
I just lit a candle for James the Just - it's one from Israel, too -
a Memorial Candle.
Name:Anchorite •
Date: 05/21/07 23:21
A: THE TAO
Cross-eyed now
Is mind and matter
Tao's two
Towers together
Split is heart
Yours and mine
Tao's but
One divine
Pull the drapes
Take a pose
Consummate
As it goes
There is neither
Rate nor duty
Only light's
Emergent beauty
~Anchorite
Name:JMD •
Date: 05/21/07 23:27
A: I'm not a whore. Nor am I that desperate for cash.
Name:JMD •
Date: 05/21/07 23:35
A: A better ude for me [I prefer to know/like my fantasies, eh?]... Colin James, that blues guitarist/singer/song writer, I've had a crush on for many years... In days gone by, I used to be right up front - so close he sweated on me. mmmm...so sexy. :b here's a good song he sings to me in my fantasies...
"Better Way to Heaven"
We're turned on and wide awake
Dusted off this lonely day
We're gonna go where the band's got soul
You sing away all my pain
Sweet honey through my veins
we're gonna twist and shout
and forget our names.
[chorus]
Swing low and
Turn the lights down
I don't wanna know a better way
to heaven
I can feel you
Shine around me
And I don't wanna know a better
way to heaven.
I'm gonna make a name
I'll make you my famous flame
And I'll take you downtown
every night
Then you can light me up
Show me what it's all about
There's no star I'll follow
like I'd follow you.
I heard the gospel truth
And I got it all from you
You got your message through
on time
You must be a saviour's daughter
Feel like I can walk on water
When I feel your sweet lips
touching mine.
Name:JMD •
Date: 05/21/07 23:56
A: "The ultimate sexist put-down: the pr*ck which lies down on the job. The ultimate weapon in the war between the sexes: the limp pr*ck. The banner of the enemy's encampment: the pr*ck at half-mast. The symbol of the apocalypse: the atomic warhead pr*ck which self-destructs. That was the basic inequity which could never be righted..."
Erica Jong "Fear of Flying"
Name:Anchorite •
Date: 05/22/07 0:01
A: You're talking about a real problem. I gotta think on it.
Name:JMD •
Date: 05/22/07 0:14
A: by the way my heart ain't split, and in any case it doesn't belong to you, whoever you are stranger with big ego
Name:Anchorite •
Date: 05/22/07 0:18
A: JMD,
I don't understand. I give up! Please know I meant well. Sorry!
~Anchorite
Name:JMD •
Date: 05/22/07 0:53
A: "On the spiritual level, women can kill with rejection. Women can kill the patriarchal God .. simply by rejecting him... Women's most feared power over men, then, is the power to say 'no.'To refuse to take care of men. To
refuse to service them sexually. To refuse to worship their masculine God. [to refuse to like their pervy, offensive silly poems, which they ruin your threads with.] "Every rapist knows that sex can be forced, but no power in the world can force love from any woman.."
"The possibility of a future true morality is contained not in the fear of God, but in the still unknown meanings of the lod, grim Goddess who represented fear itself. She is the one we most need to understand: not the pretty Virgin; not the fecund Mother; but the wise, willful, wolfish Crone."
"The Crone was the feminine equivalent of the old man with a white beard who lived up in the sky and commanded armies of angels; that is, a naive symbol of a collective idea. The symbol represented a uniquely feminine world view, unaltered by men, who feared the Crone image enough to leave it alone. They assimilated the Virgin and Mother phases of the ancient Goddess to Christianity, combined them, and deprived
the combination of divine status; but the Crone phase was too darkly threatening to be so handled.
Like old women in general, the symbolic Old Woman haunted the fringes of Western culture, largely unnoticed and unacknowledged except when her 'witchcraft' aroused a panic. Because she retained so much of her original prepatriarchal character, she is a valuable study object for modern feminists desirous of reassessing the female image.
The Crone is of value too, as an indication of the power of women's nay-saying, hence of their best hope of exerting control in a male-dominated world where they are expected to always say yes. The Crone's title was related to the word 'crown' and she represented the power who made the moral and legal decisions for her subjects and descendants.. embodiment of wisdom.. She established the cyclic system of perpetual becoming.. no hierarchy of better or worse, we and they.. a philosophical
system opposed to the ones devised by men..
Perhaps.. the Crone is being rediscovered by a world that male systems appear to be pushing toward a brink of disaster.. it has been said before that archetypes suppressed by any culture will tend to arise again and again, threatening the establishment that suppressed them... The Old Woman, who acknowledges no master, may be our best guide in this long, dark, labyrinthine spiritual journey."
Name:Anchorite •
Date: 05/22/07 1:44
A: Dear JMD,
I thank you for your interpretation. My own understanding of my poem was focused on the expression of the oneness of the universe etc. I realize now it uses certain undesirable forms. My apologies to you. I will be more careful in the future.
~Anchorite
Name:Panluna •
Date: 05/22/07 11:20
A: JMD,
I hold sway over my hubby by denying him a Snicker Bar--he won't get up and get it for himself.
Name:Panluna •
Date: 05/22/07 11:36
A: Anchorite,
As a fellow poet I learned to express myself the way I want to.if the reader has trouble accepting the work it's in that person's ballcourt.Why do you think poets are known as devils?( I believe it's a quote from Blake--I'm not sure)If you sacrifice your art to appease the public then you are no longer in control of your self-expression.I would no sooner tell Shakespeare how to write a play or tell Picasso how to paint a picture or you how to write your poetry.Feel free to express yourself the way you want--then join the Devil's club---you know the one that drives creative people. inside-out.....! And you write very well.Have you decided to publish a book yet?
Name:Not Dattaswami •
Date: 05/22/07 14:05
A: .
Name:JMD •
Date: 05/26/07 20:20
A: Anchorage, apology accepted, but why not just start a poetry thread? Put all your poems in there. Well, that's what I would do, but each to their own. Though I'd like to see people discuss things in here about this so-called 'heretical' topic - remember, you never have to agree with me on anything, - each to their own.
hmm... another paradox? is it the 'heretics' who had more of the truth all along than the 'orthodox' who claimed to be right about every thing?" Actually there is something about that in the Nag Hammadi! :b I'll dig it up one of these days...
The Cornerstone of Esoteric Christianity
by Rev. Carol E. Parrish-Harra, PhD
(Dec/1998)
"The Christian community needs to ask, "What happened to the biblical
reference to the Christ within, the hope of glory?" In the ancient mystical
teachings we learn that the "second coming" will be a perfected
consciousness of love-wisdom such as the Christ possessed. This vision for humanity is the cornerstone of esoteric Christianity."
"Historical creeds of all religions have some aspect deeply preserved until the aspirant is prepared or experiencing little-understood spiritual
phenomena. At that point, the adage, "When the student is ready, the
teacher appears, truly seems to work." Someone will reach out and, if only for a brief time, guide the one in need across troubled waters to safety.
To begin to explain Esoteric Christianity requires boldness, audacity, and tenacity. It can be endless in definition because it transforms the
experiencer and the experience redefines the faith. However, as
contemporary Christians find themselves needing a greater personal
sense of intimacy (not dogma or doctrine) with their spiritual Source,
this recognizable route to God gradually emerges, expanding our spiritual experiences.
A major challenge for many is whether esoteric, or mystical, Christianity,
as some call it, involves God or Jesus. Esoteric Christians believe Master Jesus, the Christ, pointed followers to the Father, as he affirmed he "and the Father are one." The symbology of Oneness is important to esotericists as they lift their thinking to identify with Soul, rather than personality. I am the Soul affirms this new identity.
A major adjustment is to learn to live "as a soul having a human experience," rather than to relate so strongly with personality stuff. This ability to shift identity is a major effort of transformation: "Know Thyself." The concept of the mystical body of Christ focuses our soul identity to Oneness and aligns Esoteric Christianity to the kabalistic concept of Adam Kadmon, the heavenly human."
"The great commandment expands all of us beyond comfortable personality boundaries and into the energy of the soul--Lots Of Vital Energy. Then we bring our attunement Earthward from the higher dimensions into the world around us, acting upon it to bring transformative influences to daily life.
We expand the Christian vision by fulfilling it on a one-to-one basis. Spiritual laws and the love of Christ form the foundation upon which we carry out our part of the Christ mission."
"Fears around mystical moments, hard-to-grasp experiences, or phenomena often caused the wise one, the shaman, or the astrologer to be suspect. Persecution kept those with access to such wisdom quiet, guarding what they knew. The Inquisition murdered thousands of women who were the healers and visionaries of their people. Call it magic or folk wisdom, it cost them their lives."
"Yet at troublesome or pain-filled moments, all of us call out to the heavens: "Why?" "Is this all there is?" We invoke divine help, and doors often open at such power-filled moments."
______
[I haven't read the following book, so can't comment on it, but I do like much of what is said here.]
"The Mystic Christ
By Ethan Walker III
Mysticism; Gnosticism the spiritual path of experiencing God directly within one's own self.
The Mystic Christ reveals the life and teachings of Jesus to be an ancient tale of mystic union, salvation, and enlightenment. It is the careful uncovering of a lost treasure of immeasurable value, long buried in the suffocating darkness of conventional orthodoxy on one side, and blind fundamentalist extremism on the other. From the viewpoint of the world’s mystical religious traditions, the brilliant light of Jesus’ way is revealed as a penetrating radical non-duality unifying all people and all of life. The Master’s path to this all-embracing unity is the spiritual practice of pure selfless love. Love God intensely, love our neighbor as our own Self, bless those that curse us, and pray for those that mistreat
us. Love has been lost, becoming nothing more than a word in the dictionary and, yet, it remains the foundation of Jesus’ message.
The Mystic Christ is also a compelling story of the ego, the personification of ignorance, and how it has distorted and subverted the sublime sayings of Jesus, twisting reality into unreality and light into darkness. The ego is the Antichrist in this ancient drama that has gripped every culture for all time in its talons of self-centered perception.
Adam and Eve were not the first people, the nature of man is good,
scripture is not infallible, Jesus is one of the ways, all religions are paths to God, reincarnation is in the Bible, the resurrection is a personal spiritual awakening, and the error of eternal damnation are all carefully and lovingly revealed in the life and sayings of Jesus.
The Mystic Christ is thoroughly punctuated with quotes from masters
of the mystical traditions such as Buddha, Krishna , and Lao Tzu as
well as the Gnostic gospels. But, most importantly, over 230
scriptural references from the Old and New Testament are used to
illustrate the harmony that exists between the life and teachings of
Jesus and the world’s great religions.
With the skill of a surgeon and the wisdom of Socrates, Walker
removes 2000 years of ego-centered bindings that have hidden the
brilliant light of Jesus from the world. Walker artfully peels away
centuries of abuse by the my-way-or-the-highway pirates of religion.
He gives Jesus back to the hearts and souls of a humanity that
yearns for the love of the Divine. He reveals a Jesus that is
positively enchanting for practitioners of any spiritual discipline.
The Mystic Christ is at once profoundly fascinating, deeply historic
and electric with the vibration of the mystical experience.. Love was the path that the Master taught for attaining the Supreme.
Jesus never said he was the “only way”
The Master taught that the kingdom of God is within you"
___
[hmmm.... what about "Mary known as the Master" ? Is she our teacher too? the "co-Master?" though many have changed their minds on that one. Well, she is 'Master' for me - personally speaking, that is. -especially since, again personally speaking, she is the 'true' Bride of Christ.
more later...
JMD
Name:JMD •
Date: 05/26/07 20:23
A: I meant anchorite ! not anchorage - sorry about that! [I was sailing earlier....guess that was it?]
Meditations
For- Services of the Holy Sophia
in the Month of May
Calling to remembrance our most holy, undefiled, most blessed and glorious Lady, the Mother of the aeons and ever blessed Sophia, let us pray:
O Gentle, O Kind, O Blessed Sophia, we Thy children on earth call unto Thee. We pray Thee, Beloved agent of our redemption to unveil for us the face of our Holy Guardian Angel, the blessed twin of our souls and to gather us home to the realms of light.
And thou gladsome radiance of the holy glory of the Father immortal, heavenly holy, blessed Christ, who hast rescued the holy Sophia from the dark chaos; assisted by her loving aid do thou rescue us also from the chaos of this lower aeon and forgive us our faults now and forever more.
Amen.
THE GOSPEL
The Gospel is taken from the Sophia of Jesus Christ:
The Saviour said: All who come into the world like a drop from the Light, are sent by him to the world of the false ruler and are watched by him...But I came from the places above by the will of the great Light, I who escaped from the bond of the false ruler, I have cut off the work of the robbers, I have wakened that drop of light that was sent from Sophia that it might bear much fruit through me and be perfected and not again be defective but be joined through me together. So that Sophia might also be justified and become a saviour and that her children might not again become defective but might attain honor and glory and go up to their Father and know the words of the first great Light."
JM:D
Name:Panluna •
Date: 05/28/07 11:37
A: JMD
"heretics and orthodox claim to be right about everything"--that's a paradox----depends on how the shoe fits.What does the Sophia mean?Is it a word for wisdom or a form of the Goddess?
Name:JMD •
Date: 05/29/07 4:38
A: Sophia is Wisdom. Also, where do you think the word 'Philo-sophy' comes from? :D
from Jung site:
"Sophia in her early form:
The earliest forms of Sophia emphasized her power and influence on earth and in the human psyche. In the ancient text of Hypostasis of the Archons, found at Nag Hammadi, it is written that Sophia preexisted and gave birth to the male godhead. She chastises his arrogance when he says there is no other god before him. She claims her spiritual authority. She says “you are wrong, Samuel” (meaning Lord of the blind) and stretches forth her finger to send light into matter. She then follows the light down into the region of “Chaos.”
This power of Sophia within the earth realm was seen in early visions: “I am nature, the universal mother, mistress of all the elements, primordial child of time, sovereign of all things spiritual, queen of the dead, queen of the immortals, My nod governs the shining heights of heaven, the wholesome sea breezes, the lamentable silences of the world below. I know the cycles of growth and decay.”
Certainly, from the beginning of time Sophia has been represented by the Great Mother from whom all life arises and is sustained. She was worshipped from 25,000 to 5,000 BC, an immense period of time in human history. Her fecundity is honored in the corpulent statue of Venus of Willendorf
Themes of the intertwining of nature and spirit, and the paradox of life and death are everywhere in images of the Great Feminine. In ancient Mesopotamia, she was depicted as Ishtar, with a winged headdress and holding the ring of divine authority. She was sculpted with owls at her feet representing the secrets of the underworld and death.
In pre-dynastic Egypt she was often shown as a bird goddess with her arms uplifted, again like wings. Another frequent association was with the lion: a fire symbol. This theme was evident in the statues of Sekhmet. It was said that Sekhmet, carrying the paradox of fierce feminine power, would return in times of epoch change. The New York Times reports that 17 statues of Sekhmet have been found at Luxor in March 2006.
The uniting of paradoxes is evident in Isis: the great Goddess of the two lands of light and dark of Egypt. She is the agent for the resurrection of Osiris; by conceiving Horus, she brings forth the basic symbol of transformation in the uniting of the paradoxes."
Name:Panluna •
Date: 05/29/07 18:48
A: Is it possible that those winged Gods/Goddesses could be Phanes/Eros who was considered an hermophodite? The lion was one of his animals.He inspired the last tarot card, The World, in the Major Arcana.Isis was winged and so was Azuzu--an ancient Baylonian Goddess of bad weather and bad luck.
Name:JMD •
Date: 05/30/07 4:40
A: I don't know Panluna - you'll have to go within and ask yourself. I can only find my truth, by myself, by going within.
-JMD
Schadenfreude
The secret enemy whose sleepless eye
Stands sentimental, accuser, judge and spy
The foe, the fool, the jealous and the vain
The envious who but breathe in others' pain
Behold the hose, delighting to deprave
Who traces the steps of glory to the grave
Watch every fault that daring genius owes
Half to the ardour which its birth bestows
Distort the truth, accumulate the lie
And pile the pyramid of calumny
Name:Panluna •
Date: 05/30/07 11:10
A: Yes JMD,
the truth lies within
ready to be uncovered
ready to be unbound
in the eye of the Beholder
set free to take flight
like the stars at night
or the butterflies in sunlight.
Joy is in the epiphany
the awakening of soul.
then sharing those secrets
from the voices of old
are born the new ideas
Panluna Phanes
From The Magica Papyri
Name:JMD •
Date: 06/01/07 22:36
A: "The social activism of the 1960s and the 'consciousness revolution' of the early 1970s seemed to be moving toward a historic synthesis: social transformation resulting from personal transformation - change from the inside out. In January 1976, I published an editorial, 'The Movement That Has No Name.' It said in part: 'Something remarkable is underway. It is moving with almost dizzying speed, but it has no name and eludes description. . .
The spirit of our age is fraught with paradox. It is at the same time pragmatic and transcendental. It values both enlightenment and mystery . . . power and humility
. . . interdependence and individuality. It is simultaneously political and apolitical. Its movers and shakers include individuals who are impeccably Establishment allied with one-time sign-carrying radicals. . . 'it' has infected medicine, education, social science, hard science, even government with its implications. It is characterized by fluid organizations, reluctant to create hierarchical structures, averse to dogma. . . It seems to speak to something very old. . . "
". . . Whatever their station or sophistication, the conspirators are linked, made kindred by their inner discoveries and earthquakes. You can break through old limits, past inertia and fear, to levels of fulfillment that once seemed impossible . . . Problems can be experienced as challenges, a chance for renewal, rather than stress. Habitual defensiveness and worry can fall away. It can all be otherwise . . .
-Marilyn Ferguson"The Aquarian Conspiracy: Personal and Social Transformation in the 1980s"
Zen/Meditation/Quotes...
Which way
did you come from
following dream paths
at night
while snow is still deep
in this mountain recess?
-Ryokan
Awakened within a dream
I fall into my own arms
... What kept you so long?
-Lou Hartman
A monk said 'What is this talk?'
The master said 'When I talk you don't hear it'
The monk said 'Do you hear it, sir?'
The master said 'Wait till I don't talk, then you hear it'
...Gazing at the moon all night
I chant poems
getting lost in flowers
I don't come home...
-Ryokan
After the final no
there comes a yes
And on that yes
the future of the world depends.
- Wallace Stevens
Among other creatures
this is what I was
Abilities depend on the realm
realm also depends on abilities
At birth I forgot completely
by which path I came
I don't know, these years
which school of monk I am
-Ikkyu
During dinner one night at San Francisco Zen Center someone asked
'How do you cook enlightenment?'
A young woman said, 'Over Easy.'
From now on
a nameless traveler
winter's first rain
-Basho
Seung Sahn: 'When you eat, just eat. When you read the newspaper
just read the newspaper.'
One day a student saw him reading the newspaper while he
was eating. The student asked if this did not contradict his teaching?
Seung Sahn said, 'When you eat and read the newspaper, just eat and
read the newspaper.'
A student asked Soen Nakagawa during a meditation retreat
'I am very discouraged. What should I do?'
Soen replied 'Encourage others.'
Zen is a teaching about how we can sit with stillness in the midst
of our self, our heart, our breath and the world, and then to let them open
into our wider self and into the world of other people. In this mind, the world passes transparently through us and we start to feel how there is neither outside nor inside..
-Richard Baker
Let go of hundreds of years
and relax completely
Open your hands and walk, innocent
Thousands of words
myriad interpretations
are only to free you from obstructions
If you want to know the undying person in the hut
don't separate from this skin bag here and now
-Shitou
Be soft in your practice
Think of the method as a
fine silvery stream
not a raging waterfall
Follow the stream
have faith in its course
It will go its own way
meandering here
trickling there
It will find the grooves
the cracks
the crevices
Just follow it
never let it out of your sight
It will take you.
-Sheng-yen
The moon
Abiding in the midst of
serene mind
billows break
into Light
-Dogen
If you're afraid of being grabbed by God
don't look at a wall
Definitely don't sit still
-Jiyu Kennett
Watermelons and Zen students
grow pretty much the same way
Long periods of sitting
till they ripen and grow
all juicy inside, but
when you knock them on the head
to see if they're ready -
sounds like nothing's going on
-Peter Levitt
People ask for the road
to Cold Mountain
but no road reaches
Cold Mountain
Summer sky -
still ice won't melt
the Sun comes out
but gets obscured by the mist
Imitating me
where does that get you?
My mind isn't like yours
when your mind
is like mine
you can enter here
-Hanshan
In original nature
There is no this or that
The Great Round Mirror
Has no likes or dislikes
-Seung Sahn
Seekers after truth are schooled in adversity. When they are confronted by a hindrance, they can't be overcome. Then, cutting free, their treasure is great
-Kyong Ho
Scalding coffee from a freezing cup
At the rim no telling
Which is which
-Lou Hartman
Great Doubt
Most of the work with a koan takes place alone while sitting zazen, because in reality there's nothing anyone can give us. There's nothing that we lack. Each one of us is perfect and complete, lacking nothing. That's why it is said that there are no Zen teachers and nothing to teach. But this truth must be realized by each one of us. Great faith, great doubt, and great determination are three essentials for that realization. It is a boundless faith in oneself and in the ability to realize oneself and make oneself free, and a deep and penetrating doubt which asks: Who am I? What is life? What is truth? What is God? What is reality? This great faith and great doubt are in dynamic tension with each other, and work to provide the real cutting edge of koan practice...when also accompanied by great determination.. we have at our disposal the power necessary to break through our delusive way of thinking and realize the full potential of our lives.
-John Daido Loori
The Sixth Ancestor Huineng came across two monks who were arguing about a banner flapping in the wind. One said 'The banner is moving.' The other said 'The wind is moving.' They went back and forth without coming to agreement.
The Sixth Ancestor said, 'It's not that the wind is moving; it's not that the banner moves; it's your mind that is moving'
Under the trees
among the rocks
a thatched hut
Verses and sacred commentaries
live there together
I'll burn the books
I carry in my bag
but how can I forget
the verses written in my gut?
-Ikkyu
It is the 'try' that is the more often counted as
righteousness, and 'not' the success or failure.
-Edgar Cayce
Indifference clad in wisdom's guise
All fortitude of mind supplies
Water, Rivers, Fountains
Our bodies are molded rivers
-Novalis
...drawn up the hillside at incalculable cost and labour
a thousand rills gush downward
terrace by terrace
channeling the stone rails of the balusters
leaping from step to step
dripping
into mossy conches
flashing in spray
from the horns of sea-gods
and the jaws of mythical monsters
or forcing
themselves in irrepressible overflow
down the ivy-matted banks.
-Edith Wharton
The underlying attraction of the movement of water and sand is biological. If we look more deeply we can see it as the basis of an abstract idea linking ourselves with the limitless mechanics of the universe.
-Sir Geoffrey Jellicoe
Children of a culture born
in a water-rich environment
we have never really learned
how important water is to us
We understand it
but we do not respect it
-William Ashworth
Millions long for immortality
who do not know
what to do with themselves
on a rainy Sunday afternoon
-Susan Ertz
Truths are first clouds
then rain
then harvest and food
-Henry Ward Beecher
The trees reflected in the river
they are unconscious
of a spiritual world so near to them
So are we
-Nathaniel Hawthorne
For fountains
they are a Great Beauty
and Refreshment
-Sir Francis Bacon, Of Gardens, 1625
Fountains indicate and signal well-being to all. Not only that, they share their Karmic energy with all who see, hear, smell, taste and touch them. They are, and always have been, necessary for permanent settlements. We use them when ever we turn on a tap. Fountains have come to symbolize the generosity of a god, an institution or a person. They indicate abundance and ingenuity. In every culture they play a part in the mythology of life.
- Bryan R. Hirst, Fountains
Rain down your wisdom
in sacred streams
to carry me like an
upturned leaf
through the currents
of this gray day
Innumerable as the
stars of night
Or stars of morning
dewdrops which the sun
Impearls on every leaf
and every flower
- John Milton
Like swift water
an active mind
never stagnates
A pool is the eye
of the garden
in whose candid depths
is mirrored
its advancing grace
-Lousie Bebe Wilder
I came where the river
Ran over stones
My ears knew
An early joy
And all the waters
Of all the streams
Sang in my veins
That summer day
-Theodore Roethke, The Waking, 1948
I wield the flail of the lashing hail
And whiten the green plains under
And then again I dissolve it in rain
And laugh as I pass in thunder
-Percy Bysshe Shelley, The Cloud, 1792 - 1822
The bare earth, plantless, waterless, is an immense puzzle. In the forests or beside rivers everything speaks to humans. The desert does not speak. I could not comprehend its tongue; its silence....
-Pablo Neruda
Love is like dew
that falls on both
nettles and lilies
-Swedish Proverb
The river moves
from land to water to land
in and out of organisms
reminding us what native peoples
have never forgotten:
that you cannot
separate the land
from the water
or the people
from the land
-Lynn Noel
According to Democritus, truth lies at the bottom of a well, the water
of which serves as a mirror in which objects may be reflected. I have
heard, however, that some philosophers, in seeking for truth, to pay
homage to her, have seen their own image and adored it instead.
-Charles Richter
On some of the rocks
are timeless raindrops
Under the rocks
are the words
and some of the words
are theirs
I am haunted by waters
-Norman Maclean, A River Runs Through It
To the waters, and the wild, with a Faerie, hand in hand,
for the world is morefull of weeping ... than you can understand.
-W.B. Yeats
Constant dripping
hollows out a stone.
-Lucretius
Have you watched the fairies
when the rain is done
Spreading out their little wings
to dry them in the sun?
-Rose Fyleman
The sound of the water
says what I think.
-Chuang Tzu
The land was dead and desert
So that they lost the voices of the wells
And the maidens who were in them
-'Elucidations,' Prologue to Chretien de Troyes' Perceval
For many of us, water simply flows from a faucet, and we
think little about it beyond this point of contact. We have lost
a sense of respect for the wild river, for the complex workings
of a wetland, for the intricate web of life that water supports.
-Sandra Postel
We call upon the waters
that rim the earth
horizon to horizon
that flow in our rivers and streams
that fall upon our gardens and fields
and we ask that they teach us
and show us the way
-Chinook Indian Blessing
Ancient traditions have long associated holy wells and springs as very special places of the Goddess or anima mundi: symbolic of the Great Mother and associated with birth, the feminine principle, the universal womb, the prima materia, the waters of fertility and refreshment and the fountain of life. The dreaming sites, as they are called, have also been associated with visions, healing, and other paranormal experiences. In ancient Greece, for example, there were more than three-hundred medical centers placed at water sources, where patients experienced healing.
-Christopher and Tricia McDowell, The Sanctuary Garden, 1998
Students of mythology find that when the feminine principle is subjected to sustained attack, as it was from the medieval Christian authorities, it often quietly submerges. Under the water (where organic life began) it swims through the subconscious of the dominant male society, occasionally bobbing to the surface to offer a glimpse of the rejected harmony.
-Franz Cumont
Come to me from Crete
To this, your sacred temple
Here, to this gracious glade of apples
And altars thick with incense
Here, cool water bubbles up
Through broken apple-boughs
In a clearing shaded all with roses
And quivering leaves drip enchantment
Here, meadow grass that feeds strong horses
Concedes to a riot of spring flowers
And soft honeyed breezes blow
-Sappho
"Once upon a time so the legend goes, the maidens of the sacred wells offered spring water to passers by. Then along came the evil King Amangons and his soldiers, who carried the maidens off. In 'real' European history, the Christian church repressed water cults and often built religious communities around springs or wells, appropriating the sacred waters for itself. In his book The Holy Grail, Malcolm Godwin reports that this fanatical zeal 'was in bleak contrast to the healing and nurturing powers of the Black Virgins. Behind this dark female face was a hidden Catharic leap in consciousness...' Could the production team in the dream represent the potential sacking of the sacred waters? Jean Shinoda Bolen described in her book, Crossing to Avalon, how Chartres Cathedral was built over the Druid's sanctuary of sanctuaries, on
a mound where there was a sacred wood and a well called 'The Well of the Strong'. Carved in the hollowed-out trunk of a pear tree there was a statue of a dark woman or a goddess with an infant on her knees.
The Grail Legend warns of three unhealing wounds: the destruction of nature, the individual wounded in soul or spirit, and suppression of the feminine archetype. Water, the life blood of Mother Nature, or Gaia, embodying the feminine mysteries, is surely the healer of these wounds. When you sit in a sweat lodge, you are enfolded in Grandmother Earth. When you float in water, you reenter the womb. Water has been linked in mythology to the unconscious, to the feminine or yin nature, and to gentle but persistent power. In the Grail Legend, the hero/ine - the one who is eventually to Free the Waters - has to discover the meeting place between worlds (conscious and unconscious) and to re-establish the precious links with nature. More and more people are realizing how much they miss the wilderness and are wanting to retreat to it, to restore it and themselves. Water is an essential element of this healing. It is available to both men and women but women may be leading the way."
Name:Panluna •
Date: 06/02/07 10:24
A: JMD,
What did you think of my poem to you?It's about Gnosis.
Name:JMD •
Date: 06/15/07 10:37
A: Per Harold Bloom, "Omens of Millennium: The Gnosis of Angels, Dreams, and Resurrection" [1996]:
"Gilbert Keith Chesterton, shrewdest of modern Catholic writers, warned, '[T]hat Jones shall worship the god within him turns out ultimately to mean that Jones shall worship Jones.' Mere Gnosticism badly needs to be distinguished from such large self-worship; Bloom does not wish to worship Bloom, that after all not being much of a religious experience. Our contemporary debasement of Gnosticism goes under the name of the New Age, a panoply wide enough to embrace Shirley MacLaine and Mrs. Arianna Huffington, in which Ms. MacLaine worships Ms. MacLaine (with some justification) and Mrs. Huffington reveres Mrs. Huffington (with perhaps less)....
..mere Gnosticism, as I conceive it, is rather more modest, and can be less ecstatically conveyed. Return again to your own earliest memories, not of your contexts nor of your empirical self, but of your deeper self, your sense of your own individuality..."
"...Can there be a Gnosis of the world to come, here and elsewhere, or does authentic Gnosis confine itself to the timeless knowing of one's own deep self?
Knowing the spark that is the inmost self necessarily involves knowing the self's potential. If we are fragments of what once was a Fullness, the Pleroma as ancient Gnostics called it, then we can know what once we were and what we might yet be again..."
"There always is a world to come, not a world elsewhere, but one to be known here and now. The most universal prophet of this knowing seems the highly heterodox Jesus of The Gospel of Thomas..."
"I have remarked more than once in this book that I endorse the surmises of those who have identified the congregation of James the Just with a Jewish Gnosticism that preceded Jesus, and to which Jesus adhered, though scholars as eminent as Hans Jonas have doubted that a Jewish Gnosticism ever existed...."
"Martin Hengel, in his 'Judaism and Hellenism', speaks of the Essenes as being among the earliest 'Jewish magicians,' exorcising illnesses by their angelic power, rather in the mode of Jesus..."
"..Hengel affirms that 'the first beginnings of Jewish Gnosticism probably
developed in heterodox Jewish Samaritan groups,' presumably like the one led by the notorious Simon Magus, but quite possibly also involving John the Baptist. Our ideas of Gnosticism have been debased by many centuries of normative Jewish silence and dogmatic Christian libel, and even Simon Magus may be a victim of Pauline Christian defamation. The enemies of Gnosis were and are triumphant, but only in the organizational and political sense. Historically they seem to have won,
but all victories over the spirit remain forever equivocal, and the spark or deepest self is never quite snuffed out..." :D
______
From 'The Gospel of Philip', N.H. Library:
"It is from water and fire that the soul and the spirit came into being. It is from water and fire and light that the son of the bridal chamber (came into being). The fire is the chrism, the light is the fire. I am not referring to that fire which has no form, but to the other fire whose form is white, which is bright and beautiful, and which gives beauty."
"Those who sow in winter reap in summer. The winter is the world, the summer the other eternal realm. Let us sow in the world that we may reap in the summer. Because of this it is fitting for us not to pray in the winter. Summer follows winter. But if any man reap in winter he will not actually reap but only pluck out, since it will not provide a harvest for such a person."
"Names given to the worldly are very deceptive, for they divert our thoughts from what is correct to what is incorrect. Thus one who hears the word 'God' does not percieve what is correct, but perceives what is incorrect. So also with 'the father' and 'the son' and 'the holy spirit' and 'life' and 'light' and 'resurrection' and 'the church' and all the rest - people do not perceive what is correct but they perceive what is incorrect, [unless] they have come to know what is correct. [the words refer to what is real]. The [names which are heard] are in the world [deceive. If they]
were in the eternal realm, they would at no time be used as names in the world. Nor were they set among worldly things. They have an end in the eternal realm."
"Truth, which existed since the beginning, is sown everywhere. And many see it being sown, but few are they who see it being reaped."
"And the lord [would] not have said 'My [father who is in] heaven' unless [he] had had another father, but he would have said simply '[My father]'.
" 'Jesus' is a hidden name, 'Christ' is a revealed name. For this reason 'Jesus' is not particular to any language; rather he is always called by the name 'Jesus.' While as for 'Christ,' in Syriac it is 'Messiah,' in Greek it is 'Christ.' Certainly all the others have it according to their own language. 'The Nazarene' is he who reveals what is hidden. Christ has everything in himself, whether man or angel or mystery, and the
father."
"It is through water and fire that the whole place is purified - the visible by visible, the hidden by the hidden. There are some things hidden through those visible. There is water in water, there is fire in chrism."
"It is not possible for anyone to see anything of the things that actually exist unless he becomes like them. This is not the way with man in the world: he sees the sun without being a sun; and he sees the heaven and the earth and all other things, but he is not these things. This is quite in keeping with the truth. But you (sg.) saw something of that place, and you became those things."
"Spiritual love is wine and fragrance. All those who anoint themselves with it take pleasure in it. While those who are anointed are present, those nearby also profit (from the fragrance)."
"Faith receives, love gives. [No one will be able to receive] without faith. No one will be able to give without love. Because of this, in order that we may indeed receive, we believe, and in order that we may love, we give, since if one gives without love, he has no profit from what he has given."
"Farming in the world requires the cooperation of four essential elements. A harvest is gathered into the barn only as a result of the natural action of water, earth, wind and light. God's farming likewise has four elements - faith, hope, love, and knowledge. Faith is our earth, that in which we take root. [And] hope is the water through which we are nourished. Love is the wind through which we grow. Knowledge then is the light through which we [ripen]."
"For so long as the root of wickedness is hidden, it is strong. But when it is recognized it is dissolved. When it is revealed it perishes. That is why the word says, 'Already the ax is laid at the root of the trees' (Mt 3:10). It will not merely cut - what is cuts sprouts again - but the ax penetrates deeply until it brings up the root. Jesus pulled out the root of the whole place, while others did it only partially. As for ourselves, let each one of us dig down after the root of evil which is within one, and let one pluck it out of one's heart from the root. It will be plucked out if we recognize it. But if we are ignorant of it, it takes root in us and produces its fruit in
our heart. It masters us. We are its slaves. It takes us captive, to make us do what we do [not] want; and what we do want we do [not] do. It is powerful because we have not recognized it."
"For truth is like ignorance: while it is hidden it rests in itself, but when it is revealed and is recognized, it is praised inasmuch as it is stronger than ignorance and error. It gives freedom. The word said, 'If you (pl.) know the truth, the truth will make you free' (Jn 8:32). Ignorance is a slave. Knowledge is freedom. If we know the truth, we shall find the fruits of the truth within us. If we are joined to it, it will bring our fulfillment."
[the following translations, Gospel of Philip, are from the book 'The Gospels of Mary' by Marvin Meyer]:
"If you say 'I am a Jew,' no one will be moved. If you say, 'I am a Roman,' no one will be disturbed. If you say 'I am a Greek, barbarian, slave, free,' no one will be troubled. If you say, 'I am a Christian,' the [world] will be shaken. May I [receive the one] whose name the [world] cannot bear to hear."
"The apostles said to the disciples, 'May our entire offering be provided with salt.' For they called [wisdom] salt. Without it an offering is unacceptable. Wisdom is barren [with no] children, and so she is called [the pillar] of salt.' "
(Wisdom=Sophia)
"People cannot see anything that really is without becoming like it. It is not so with people in the world, who see the sun without becoming the sun and see the sky and earth and everything else without becoming them."
"..Here in the world you see everything but do not [see] yourself, but there in that realm you see yourself, and you will [become] what you see."
____
From Apocalypse of Peter, NH Library:
"For many will accept our teaching in the beginning. And they will turn from them again by the will of the Father of their error, because they have done what he wanted. And he will reveal them in his judgment, i.e. the servants of the Word. But those who became mingled with these shall become their prisoners, since they are without perception...
And they praise the men of propagation of falsehood, those who will come after you. And they will cleave to the name of a dead man, thinking that they will become pure. But they will become greatly defiled and they will fall into a name of error, and into the hand of an evil, cunning man and a manifold dogma, and they will be ruled heretically."
"...And there shall be others of those who are outside our number who name themselves bishop and also deacons, as if they have received authority from God. They bend themselves under the judgment of the leaders. Those people are dry canals."
______
"The best way out is always through."
-Robert Frost
"Stand up and be counted, or do not stand at all."
-Charles Ditlefsen
"The great pleasure in life is doing what people say you can not do."
-Walter Bagehot
"If your eye is sound, your whole body will be full of light."
(Matt. 6:22).
____
"It Fills You Up"
(from a song by Van Morrison)
"There's something going on
It fill you up, it fill you up, it fill you up now
There's something going on
It fill you up, it fill you up, it fill you up now
But you don't know what it is
And you don't know what it is
And you don't have to know.
Within this melody
It fill you up, it fill you up, it fill you up now
There's more than you can see
It fill you up, it fill you up, it fill you up now
There's another realm
And there's another world
Filled with kings and queens.
That's why you got to face the facts
It fill you up, it fill you up, it fill you up now..."
___
The Gospel of Thomas:
Jesus said "Images are visible to people, but the light within them is hidden in the image of the father's light. He will be disclosed, but his image is hidden by his light."
Jesus said, "Blessings on the person who knows at what point the robbers are going to enter, so that [he] may arise, bring together his estate, and arm himself before they enter."
"As for you, then, be on guard against the world. Arm yourselves with great strength, or the robbers might find a way to get to you, for the trouble you expect will come. Let there be among you a person who understands. When the crop ripened, the person came quickly with sickle in hand and harvested it. Whoever has ears to hear should hear."
JMD
Name:JMD •
Date: 06/19/07 7:38
A: I hope to do another post soon for this thread, but need more time; maybe by the coming weekend. I have today off, but am going to take time for just me.
For now, here's something I recently read, -and I add a few comments here and there - and thought I'd post here.
Well, I wouldn't want to go to Israel anyway, as it is not a place I care to travel to, not at this point in time at least, but look at the NY Israeli consulate, being a bunch of 'good ol' boys'. *rolls eyes at their immaturity*
"Israeli consulate invitation slammed as 'pornographic'
Invitation sent by consulate in New York has female MKs wondering if making Israel tourist-relevant means advertising sex
Amnon Meranda Published: 06.18.07, 12:26 / Israel Travel
Female Knesset members are outraged: A photo of former Miss Israel Gal Gadot, wearing nothing but a skimpy bikini, appeared on a formal invitation to an event being held by the Israeli consulate in New York.
"This pornographic campaign sponsored by the Foreign and Tourism Ministries is an outrage," MK Colette Avital (Labor), former Consul-General to New York said Monday.
"Israel's image has been tainted by sex-scandals involving high-ranking officials as it is."
[well, some men are full of lust, and are sluts; so what are you gonna do? Though I wouldn't call it 'porno' per se, not a woman in a bikini. Treating women like sex objects, yes I call it that, but you'll never get rid of that, as for now we live in an imperfect, unbalanced, earthly world.]
"I wonder if the best way to encourage tourism is by advertising sex," she added."
[for some it is, as sex is just about all they think about -poor lost souls.]
"The invitation
Avital approached Knesset Speaker Dalia Itzik demanding an urgent session be called to discuss the matter.
MK Zahava Gal-On, chairwoman of Meretz, seconded Avital's feelings: 'It's unfortunate that the Israeli consulate chose to emphasize Israel's relevance with a portrait of a half-naked woman, instead of with one of women of substance and accomplishments,' she said.' "
[hatred and fear of women is still very much a disease in this earthly world, so treating them like sex objects is what 'some' men want, due to these immature men being psychologically messed up. Strong, intelligent, independent women, with minds of their own, who respect and love themselves, well, they feel threatened by that, so they like to ridicule/insult/oppress as much as they can - which is why I've put up with tons of ridicule/hatred in my life, but it doesn't bother me. It's not what they think of me that counts, it's what I think of them that counts. :b]
"We found that Israel's image among men aged 18-38 is lacking," explained David Saranga, consul for media and public affairs at the consulate, "so we thought we'd approach them with an image they'd find appealing."
Their image is 'lacking' and this is the best you can do?! And what about image among women? Oh well, they don't care about that. This is one messed up, crazy world we live in.... more reason to spend time in the kingdom within.... see ya,
JMD
Name:Panluna •
Date: 06/19/07 11:26
A: JMD,
The one true gift each of owns is the kingdom within.
I would like to visit the Middle Eastern countries sometime in the future--especially Isreal.And sometimes it's a good idea to be a cultural cameleon and blend in --then we can learn more as long you don't lose sight of yourself and what is important to you.We do live in a crazy mixed up world and it's always been like this.As long as you know yourself then you've been saved from it's insanity.You can't save others---they have to do that for themselves.It's self-realization.Free the mind.
Name:JMD •
Date: 06/20/07 17:30
A: Ah, but what do you see and hear when you go within to the Kingdom? That is the difference. What do you see and hear? Do you fly while within the kingdom? Have you experienced being a tree, a flower, a waterfall, a fountain, the ocean, the sun, etc.?
*big joyful grin*
JMD
Name:Panluna •
Date: 06/20/07 18:32
A: JMD,
I've felt like I was connected with everything.Always remember to ground yourself with a glass of water when you are finished with your meditation.
Enjoy the astral-flight and the images.
Name:JMD •
Date: 06/21/07 20:33
A: The thing is, these days, I'm sorta constantly in a meditative/reflective state of mind, so drink water... whenever. And I think finding a new 'social services' job would help me immensely, least a part time one; and go part time with the job I have now; I'm overworked and underpaid for all I do.. (not to mention, I get no benefits with the job I have now, lovely, eh? So I think I'll cash in part of my pension and have a vacation.) Not enough help, with the job I do now, so I'm worn out, so time for me to move on to other things. Maybe write some articles, too? Or poetry? Or work on my novel? Part of my spiritual path could be thrown in to the novel. :D
JMD
Name:Panluna •
Date: 06/22/07 9:07
A: JMD,
Good luck with the changes in your life's path.Maybe your Higher -self is trying to tell you something.I have an idea for a novel I want to write but I'm sti
