Name:QuebecIndieAnna •
Title: Palestine & Israel •
Date posted: 11/06/09 1:26
Q: .
I sat on a goat stool at the foot of the Sinai and laughed at the jokes of Fayez.
The land and its sun seem to belong to the man
the Palestinian, Fayez
He drove me back to Jerusalem, where he was born : Thank you Fayez for showing me your home
and for telling me all of your jokes.
I'm an Air Force brat and one of our traits is we long
for family history. It comes with the fact that we
move so much as kids.
Connecting with ancestors becomes a need.
When Mr. Jacabovici shows a need to reconnect with ancestors in East Europe, I can relate.
When he shares his need to reconnect names on boxes and a tomb and a time and a place and a
city at the eastern end of the Mediterranean,
I can relate.
I am so glad for the threading together of all of our ancestors. When Bagdad is being bombed, I worry about the treasures there that hold the secrets to our
collective ancestors.
I'm from French Canada. I'm Native & Irish & French & Scottish. But I feel a connection to the ancestors of other cultural and religious groups.
Question :
How do you think Palestians and Jews should share the tiny land they live on.
Movies to watch before you join this discussion :
Lemon Tree (2008)
The Band's Visit - La Fanfare (2007) Bikur Ha-Tizmoret
Exodus (1965)
My favourite moment in La Fanfare :
- when a band member, hangs his hat on a nail
to cover a picture in the bistro.
Indie
.
Name:vvk •
Date: 11/07/09 3:31
A: Hi IndieAnna
My English is not very good, but when i have time I like to read something about this website, You are the most patience and loyalty to this web,It's very nice. Thank You very much.
Vincent.
Name:QuebecIndieAnna •
Date: 11/07/09 8:46
A: Hi Vincent.
Thank you for your message. What is your main language that you speak?
Indie
.
Name:QuebecIndieAnna •
Date: 11/08/09 1:16
A: .
A film to also see before beginning this discussion ls "Adoration" (2008).
And the special features of the film.
Indie
.
Name:sam •
Date: 11/11/09 21:09
A: Dear Indie,
You brought this question :
atheist
“How do you think Palestians and Jews should share the tiny land they live on.”
Let us imagine that you and your family own a house in the country which we call Canada and you had a native Indian live next to you, and both houses had a small land, but both live in harmony and had a good life, and let us imagine too, that a native Indian family treated badly south of the border, and that poor family came and took a corner from your land to make it their home, then they invited another native Indian from Mexico to move in and take another piece, and another, and another, then those make themselves free to go into your house and treat you and your family badly , and you cannot move in your own house, and then after they kill some in your family etc. , etc. etc. THE QUESTION IS:
– YOU THINK THE INDIAN WHO LIVED ON THE LAND FOR 25000 YEARS HAS THE RIGHT TO FORCE YOU OUT OF YOUR LAND AND HOME TODAY, KNOWING THAT YOU TOOK THEIR LAND AFTER KILLING MOST OF THEIR PEOPLE ?.
– EVEN THE INDIAN [ AND THE BLACKS] BECAME CHRISTIANS [AMERICANS & CANADIANS] AND CARRY THE BIBLE, THEY ARE TREATED AS SECOND CLASS CITIZENS IN THEIR OWN LAND. IS THAT RIGHT ?
Dear Indie, First, Palestine is a TINY LAND and it was shared during the history by the people who lived within the country [occupiers come and go...Greeks-Persians-Romans, Arabs etc.]
Second, Even with their occupations for hundreds of years by great powers, their identities as the people of the land , Palestinians or Syrians or Egyptians never changed.
Third, the Palestinian before Abraham all were atheist, then the family of Abraham [the jews tribe stated] and other tribes followed His teachings [not Jews], and the story goes on until Moses get the Jews [the children of Abraham and other children not related to Him by blood] out of Egypt, and they took Palestine from its people [they claim god gave it to them !!!]
Then came Jesus, and the Christianity [teaching love and peace], and the people of Palestine, the same people divided between Jews and Christians and non-believers, then from Arabia which borders Palestine from the south came the Islam teachings, and was chosen by some in Palestine but there still there are Jews and Christians, and all lived together FOR THE LAST 2000 YEARS, and there was no wars UNTIL THE YEARS 1948 ???????
The Jews from Europe and Africa and America are flooding the tiny country, they are coming to take the land and to kill and throw the Palestinians out ,and not to share Palestine with the Palestinians, and they are supported by the super power Christian countries of the west to serve their political agenda , this is the answer.
Information taken from “HAMMOND MEDALLION WORLD ATLAS” which describe the historic changes in the area of the eastern Mediterranean part of land, and it shows the MAPS of the area in colors, the dates and the people who live in and the outside powers who came in to control.
The first MAP 2000 to 1600 B.C.
Egyptian Kingdom south, & the CANAAN to the north ruling the land from SINAI desert in the south to Byblos in the north and that is the area which include PALESTINE & LEBANON today, and of course the OLD BABYLION KINGDOM TO THE EAST.
The second MAP shows the kingdoms of the area ans that CANAANITES in Palestine and the PHOENICIANS in Lebanon, [and EDOM -MOAB - AMMON - KINGDOM OF SIHON - KINKDOM OF OG - and THE HITITE EMPIRE, ON THE EAST AND NORTH OF THE AREA.
A red note written: “Canaan at this time was an Egyptian province...”
The third MAP, it shows ‘THE ROUTE OF THE EXODUS AND THE CONQUEST OF CANAAN”
On this MAP there are many notes written in red, among them: “In the land of Goshen [EGYPT] the Israelites* dwelt in bondage.” , “Israelites* wondered in wilderness for a generation...”, “After the fall of JERICHO, JASHUA conquered central and southern Canaan”.
Here I will stop to ask few questions:
- We can see clearly here that those who created those maps mentioned the “JEWS” as “ISRAELITES” long before Israel is mentioned in this atlas . and the question is why?.
- when I read Jashua, I went to check the Bible, and here some information:
Joshua 6:21 And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword.
[THE JEWS CAME TO DESTROY AND KILL ]
7:1 But the children of Israel committed a trespass in the accursed thing: for Achan, the son of Carmi, the son of Zabdi, the son of Zerah, of the tribe of Judah, took of the accursed thing: and the anger of the LORD was kindled against the children of Israel.
[THE JEWS ANGER THEIR LORD “GOD”]
7-7 And Joshua said, Alas, O LORD God.... [Alas ??? is that Allah .. Is that what Jesus mentioned ?... Eli, Eli {God, God}, and I read this in the gospels.
9:24 the LORD thy God commanded his servant Moses to give you all the land, and to destroy all the inhabitants of the land from before you.
[WAS IT GOD WHO GIVE THEM THE LAND AND ASKED THEM TO DESTROY THE LAND AND ALL THE INHABITANTS ??????. AND WHAT KIND OF GOD IS THIS GOD???/ ......IS THE JEWS GOD AND HIS WORDS DIFFERENT FROM JESUS TEACHING.??..... IS THE BIBLE THE WORDS OF GOD OR THE HISTORY OF THE JEWS??? ]
10:38And Joshua returned, and all Israel with him, to Debir; and fought against it:
10:39 And he took it, and the king thereof, and all the cities thereof; and they smote them with the edge of the sword, and utterly destroyed all the souls that were therein; he left none remaining: as he had done to Hebron, so he did to Debir, and to the king thereof; as he had done also to Libnah, and to her king.
10:40 So Joshua smote all the country of the hills, and of the south, and of the vale, and of the springs, and all their kings: he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the LORD God of Israel commanded.
[GOD OF ISRAEL COMMANDED HIS PEOPLE TO DO ALL THAT .....SOMETIME I WONDER IF THERE ARE TWO GODS , THE BED IN THE BIBLE AND THE GOOD IN THE GOSPELS...]
1200 to 1020 B.C.
The fourth MAP, it shows “ CANAAN AS DIVIDED AMONG THE TWELVE TRIBES”
Another MAP came to show the land occupiers: THE EMPIRE OF DAVID AND SOLOMON.
1000 TO 925 b.c.
AT THIS TIME ISRAEL NAME CAME FOR THE FIRST TIME.
Phoenicia - Philestia . All the area on the Mediterranean . Syria - To the north.
ISRAEL - north of Jerusalem , east of the Jordan river, up north of lake Tabarya.
JUDAH - very small part west of the dead sea, and surrounded by AMALEKITES.
925 TO 842 B.C.
ISRAEL , grow to occupy part of land east of the red sea, and east to the Mediterranean sea , from JAFFA to HAIFA [today], and south of JAFFA is PHILISTIA [PALESTINE].
JUDAH, grow to take over the land in the south and reach the gulf of Aqaba on the red sea,
840 to 800 B.C.
ISRAEL AND JUDAH at the time of THE SYRIAN CONQUESTS.
Here Israel lost HALF THE LAND and so JUDAH.
700 B.C.
JUDAH AFTER THE FALL OF ISRAEL.
[HERE THE NAME OF ISRAEL STOP TO EXIST]
JUDAH became only small part of land to the west of the dead sea, surrounded by Philistia from the west and Samaria from the north, and Egyptian kingdom from the south , and Arabia from the east.
From that we can come to the conclusion , and that is Israel is a country built on occupation of the land of THE OTHER PEOPLE and on destruction and killing [read the Bible] , and only lasted from 1000 B.C. to 700 B.C.
That is only 300 years
But for many thousands of years before the name of Israel appear, the following countries existed, PHILISTIA, PHOENICIA, EGYPT, SYRIA, ARABIA, and they still in existence after Israel is gone, and if you question WHY? , the answer it is because the people of the land always stay in their land but the occupiers no matter how long they occupy the land one day they will be out. Example. The Greeks, the Romans , the Ottomans etc and many others around the world they try to conquer other people and take their land but only for some time.
God bless you.
Name:sam •
Date: 11/12/09 11:15
A: Hello Indie,
Sorry, the word "atheist" came on top of my post by mistake. The reason is I don't know how to spel this word , and I am using the "word perfect" , so I wrote this word to see if my spelling is right, but forget to delete it.
Please forgive me.
God bless you.
Name:vvk •
Date: 11/15/09 1:37
A: Hi IndieAnna
It's vey nice for You and sam still come back the web, I'm Vietnamese language speaking.
I can't belive You had H1N1. Where You get it from. Hope You get well soon.
vincent.
Name:QuebecIndieAnna •
Date: 11/15/09 20:41
A: Hi Sam.
Hi Vincent.
I must rest now, but I will respond soon.
Sam, thank you for your comprehensive post.
Talk to you soon.
Indie
.
Name:betty47 •
Date: 12/20/09 23:11
A: What inventions have the Palestinians given the world? Answer: infatadas, suicide bombers and hate.
What inventions have the Israelis given the world? The cell phone, Windows XP, and modern scanners to find breast cancer which have benefited millions around the globe. Jews have won more Nobel Prizes for science per capita than any other group. Arabs have won almost none because they have contributed little that benefits the world in modern times.
More Palestinians go to Israel to live from the West Bank than any other country. There never was a country called Palestine. Palestinians have murdered, burned and killed Jews for thousands of years. It's not like the Palestinians are a bunch of boy scouts. They hate women too and their fellow Muslims if they happen to be Shites.
The West Bank and Gaza was first taken over by Jordan and Egypt, not Israel. Arabs prevented a Palestinian state, and most Palestinian leaders like Arafat were corrupt, building palaces with money that was suppose to go to the poor in Palestine, so that they would stay poor and want to throw their lives away as suicide bombers.
It's time to disallow the postings knocking Israel and stick to issues impacting the Jesus Family Tomb, in my opinion.
Name:QuebecIndieAnna •
Date: 12/23/09 0:44
A: .
December the 22nd, 2009
Good evening Friends.
Sam, again, thank you for your post. Betty, welcome to my page. I will re-read your post after I've had a night's sleep. I worked 15 hours today and begin tonight my December holiday here in Canada.
Growing up near the German border in the 60s, near a Canadian Air base, but frequenting France's schools, I witnessed first hand, only 15 years after WWII the deep division between various families of my classmates while I was in primary school.
So, I know firsthand how some can reject out of hand the value of an entire other people and culture.
My ancestors are from the forest and rivers that mark my land.
My ancestors' culture taught me that every human being is a universe onto their own.
My ancestors taught me to welcome the individual.
I cannot pretend to know the reality from which you come.
You said nothing about your past or where you are from.
Sam and I have been speaking for years.
We know one another's history.
We have argued.
We have shared.
We have grown to respect one another.
Yet, we are still getting to know one another.
May I invite you to read the post that begins this page?
May I invite you to see the movies I mention in that post?
May I invite you, at any time you wish, to say a little about yourself?
Do you hail from the US Bible belt?
Jerusalem?
Germany?
You seem to be writing in your first language, so if you have the time, try to explore some of the other exchanges between Sam and myself.
You say it is time to disallow the kind of exchange you see between Sam and myself.
What I'd like to share with you is that Sam and I have built, over time, a safe zone to say how we feel about things, yet somehow we always show one another that we want to at least keep the lines of communication open.
We always show one another that we want to at least continue to learn more and more about one another.
We each come from different tradition.
To learn the history of another human being takes a lifetime.
I learned that as the child growing up in and Air Force family, moving every few years, changing cultures, food, language, school, climat, music...
To learn the history of another human being takes love of one's own tradition and a deep respect for the tradition of others, simply because that person exists.
Simcha also, is my impression, one day discovered that he needed to understand where his ancestors come from : his ancestors in Europe; his ancestors who wrote their names in limestone.
Today, someone read a sentence to me and made a comment.
I realized that the person did not understand the meaning of two words in that sentence. I handed that person my digital dictionary and said : spend time with that sentence;
spend time with that sentence;
spend time with that sentence.
Then I will listen to your new comment.
As I begin my holiday time on this December 22nd 2009, I wish all readers and contributors peace, love of their ancestors, desire to listen, joy in sharing, and I wish, on December the 25th, that I could make the whole world sit down with a bowl of pop corn and watch
The Band's Visit - La Fanfare (2007) Bikur Ha-Tizmoret.
Is my prayer tonight.
Indie
.
Name:sam •
Date: 12/29/09 19:21
A: Hello, betty47,
You quoted this, "What inventions have the Palestinians given the world?"
I agree with you that the palestinian in the last 50 years or so did not give much scientific enovation, and the Israelies did, but the question why?.
Here some facts that only the naive people will ignore, or try to ignore because they like one side and hate the other.
1- The Palestinians in Palestine were under the occupation by the British for many years, and if you have a common sence and the right knowledge about history you will know that any country under occupation will never had chance to develop, and that is a fact [just look at the eastern European counties while under the the power of the Russians.
2- The British left and with France and many other countries helped in bringing the Jews from all around Europe and gave them the arms to take the Palestinians land and kill the people or throw them out to be refugeese, and keep the young generation jailed in their land.
3- THE "infatadas, suicide " are no more than act needed for those poor people to defent themself while under occupation and humilation , and it is exactly like any intifada and suicide act done by any people who suffer from brutality of the occupiers.
Did you ever read about the American intifada to throw the British out, or the indian intifada or the French intifada or the ones that occur in many eastern European countries, for example the intifada in Czechoslovakia, and the use of 5000 Russian tanks to break it down.
Yesterday I watched a movie called " THE FOUR HORSEMANS" A REAL STORY about a French-Argentinian rich family who went to France and fought with the French- underground movement [intifada] and helped tothrow out the German , and the same happen in Algeria to throw the French occupiers out etc., etc., etc.
The occupying countries give the intifada's a bad names , many different bad and ugly names and they try to name the people seeking their freedom as outlaws,murderer, killer etc.,
The Americans, the indians, the French, the Algerians, all of them called different bad name, but the question are those people who sacrifice their live and fought for their countries bad people, please tell me.
Hundred of thousands of Afaghanies lost their live fighting the Soviet occupation and were helped by many othe countries including the United State, Betty, do you think the intifada in Afaghanistan was bad and the Afaghany were wrong to fight the Soviets?
4- Since the creation of Israel, the Jewish people mostly came from Europe which they are developed country and are advanced in science and millitary knowledge and they were mostly rich , and small portion from Africa or Asia, those are the poor and third world class and they were under the Europeans occupation [ex:, Morroco, Egypt, Lebanon etc.], and the different between the two groops noticible.
5- Israel received 50 billion Mark from Germany in the early years, and many billions from England and France and from the rich Jews around the world.
Israel are getting every year more than 4 billions dollars , plus the secret assistant, plus the donations from their supportes.
Did those figures means anything to you ?.
Do you think anyone can do any scitific or even a social research or do any work of any kind whithout having the resources or what we call $$$$$$$$$$$$$.
After all that , I don't think you will come to undrstand the different between the right and the wrong,
Name:sam •
Date: 12/31/09 20:33
A: Dear Indie Anna,
I wish you and all the freinds in this forums a verry happy new year.
God bless you all.
Sam
Name:QuebecIndieAnna •
Date: 01/01/10 20:05
A: .
January 1st, 2010
20h
Watching the movie 'Speed'. :)
Hi Sam!
Happy New Year! May you, and your wife and your children all enjoy good health and peace in your hearts.
