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Name: betty47 •
Title: Ossuary of James •
Date posted: 03/12/07 10:11
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Q: As indicated priviously, I am a Catholic and am very excited about the discoveries discussed in this movie. Unlike many Christians who are trying to shoot this movie down as hard as they can, I think this is a wonderful development in the history of Christianity, but then I am much more skeptical and realistic than most Christians., and my faith will not change if Jesus' bones are found. But, I come from a family of several well known scientists who are not afraid of the truth. We're not Christians who make up science to fit our biblical beliefs. Our beliefs our kept apart from science. My father is an internationally known biochemist who has helped test and develop many of the modern medicines that millions of people around the world take every day. He has been at the forefront for more than 30 years of trying to find cures for Alzheimers, diabetes, thyroid disease, migranes, cancer, etc. Other family members are respected globally as well in chemistry and biology so you'll pardon my skeptism from so called "scholars" who are ranting on this site about how this new discovery can't possibly ever, ever be true. One thing scientists will tell you is that science doesn't stand still. There are new discoveries every day. I think there should be more testing and a healthy debate from both sides. It won't hurt Christianity, in my opinion to have a real debate.
Let's recall that just a few years ago, when the Ossuary of James was found, both Jewish and Christian scholars, who were all internationally respected, were quick to find this new Ossuary a fake, and even convinced authorities in Israel to put a man on trial for faking the inscription on the James Ossuary. It seems people were scared back then too about the implications of the discovery. Now scholars are rethinking this and doing a huge back track. Internationally respected scholars are claiming this inscription on the Ossuary of James might be the real thing after all. They can not prove the inscription was forged. So if this inscription on Jame's coffin was not forged and if the ossuary came from the same tomb as the other ossuaries from the Jesus Family Tomb, will scholars be back tracking in a couple of years as well on the new Jesus Ossuary? Click on the link below and read some of interesting developments from other scholars. If you have an open mind and wish to read the latest from scholars on both sides, I would recommend clicking on www.biblicalarchaeology.org which has some fascinating information and articles on this subject.
There's even a free e-book on the burial of Jesus.
Finally, below is the link to the article from a well known scholar indicating that the inscription on the Ossuary of James can not be proven to be a fake.
http://www.biblicalarchaeology.or-g/bswbOOossuary_Krumbeinsummary.asp
I'm- sure this posting will be followed by lots of so called scholars and scientists who know a lot more than I so post away.
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Name: betty47 •
Date: 03/12/07 10:16 |
A: I'm sorry the above link may not pull up correctly. Try the below to get the full article in PDF version.
http://www.biblicalarchaeology.-org/bswbOOossuary_Krumbeinreport.pd-f-
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Name: lightwoman •
Date: 03/12/07 15:15 |
A: For those interested, lab tests done on the lettering on the James ossuary have shown that the patina in the lettering, especially the "brother of Yeshua" part under fire, claimed to be a forgery (added recently to hike the selling price), is consistent witht the patina on the rest of the ossuary, and is not a man-made fabrication. Visit the Biblical Archeology Society's webpage for more details:
http://www.bib-arch.org/b--swbOOossuaryarchive.asp?PubID=BSBA&--Volume=28&Issue=6&ArticleID=1
Th--e-- lab's certificate of authenticity is even posted there. An expert states that if it is a forgery, the alleged forger should receive a medal and be hired to detect other forgeries - that's how difficult it would be to fake the patina in the lettering.
When you tie this to the patina tests done in this film which show a high likelihood ("match") that the James ossuary did indeed come from the Talpiot tomb (when it did not "match" other patina chromatograph "fingerprints" from other randomly sampled tombs), it all starts to add up.
As to arguments that this James ossuary was not the 10th missing ossuary, where Joe Zias backtracks and states he never told James Tabor it was missing (that because it was plain it was put out in the courtyard), Dr. Tabor took notes during their meeting, too, and his notes tell no such story (refer to Tabor's blog at jesusdynasty.com/blog). He also points out that "plain" only refers to being unadorned/having no decorations; it has nothing to do with whether it had an inscription or not. The James ossuary in question is indeed unadorned, has no decorations.
Of course, this is all fascinating, and we won't know more until the fraud/forgery court case is decided. But if it turns out the James ossuary is authentic, and further tests can prove it highly likely it did come from the Talpiot "Jesus family" tomb (as well as stats showing the probability of a James with a father Joseph and a brother Jesus), then the implications are huge - that will really throw the odds in favor that this IS the Jesus family tomb.
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Name: voyager •
Date: 03/12/07 16:59 |
A: Professor Paul L. Maier states that a proper translation from the Greek (for John 20:6-7) is that Jesus "withdrew from the grave clothes without disturbing their arrangement." ('First Easter', Harper & Row, 1973) This rationale is consistent with the latest findings of the scientific study of The Shroud of Turin, which records the image of a first century man who had been crucified using the methods of the first century Romans.
Was the image of Jesus of Nazareth or of another man crucified by the Romans? Are the bones in This TV video of the Jesus the Christ or of another Jesus? It makes no difference to me personally, because I believe & know that Jesus was resurrected on that first Easter morning. It is His image that was recorded on that burial cloth.
I do not believe the bones belong to Jesus Christos / Jesus The Jewish Messiah. Both titles belong to Joshua ben Joseph ben Jacob of the house of David, second king of ancient Israel.
These discussions are good in that each can firm up his/her faith of Father,Mother,God. Jesus repeatedly said that His kingdom is in spirit and not of this world.
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Name: betty47 •
Date: 03/12/07 17:01 |
A: Thank you, lightwoman. You stated it much better than I. The subject is indeed fascinating.
To Simcha and James, I say this movies cries out for a sequel if there ever was one. Millions of people are hoping they can find the bones that were in these tombs and test them to see what further secrets they reveal.
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Name: betty47 •
Date: 03/12/07 17:11 |
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A: Thank you too, voyager. A very well stated posting also.
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Name: Perceptions •
Date: 03/13/07 20:29 |
A: Great postings here!
I'm curious about how Jesus might have been addressed at his time, either,Jesus son of Mary ,if his Virgin-Birth was firmly believed, or the son of Joseph?
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Name: Perceptions •
Date: 03/19/07 23:29 |
A: Kindly visit the site;
http://www.joezias.com/
Viewers Guide To The Talpiot Tomb Ducumentary
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Name: Xcavate •
Date: 03/21/07 16:00 |
A: Betty:
Here is another site you might be interested in, take out the dash in the word blog, Enjoy. thanks for your post, Ben
http://jesusdynasty.com/blog/category/tabor-blo-g/
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Name: betty47 •
Date: 03/23/07 0:30 |
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A: Thank you for the link.
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Name: Xcavate •
Date: 03/23/07 18:28 |
A: Betty,
Your very wecome here is another link in regaurds to the James ossuary. This is very up to date and informative. Enjoy
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Name: Xcavate •
Date: 03/23/07 18:28 |
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A: LOL oooops, Forgot the link :) http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_ossu.htm
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Name: betty47 •
Date: 03/24/07 21:30 |
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A: No problem. Thank you again. This is really all very interesting.
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Name: betty47 •
Date: 03/24/07 22:01 |
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A: By the way, why do we keep using the Greek version of names when we are obviously speaking English? In reading all these posts, people keep saying James and Jesus were common names in Jerusalem. But aren't the names really Jacob and Joshua? Those are the names written on the ossuaries. Why don't we call these people by their real names? The James ossuary says Ya'akov on it which means Jacob. You have to translate it again to Greek to get it to mean "James". Is there any possibility that the reason these ossuaries were not reported to the public when they were found in 1980 because a Jewish person in Israel today reading Hebrew would have read the inscription as Jacob son of Joseph brother of Joshua and would not have thought immediately to the Greek "James son of Joseph brother of Jesus"? It's probably a stupid question, but I'm a lay person when it comes to this.
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Name: Xcavate •
Date: 03/25/07 0:56 |
A: ya know that is a slim possibility that some of that might have happened Betty. But from what I have read most scholars just plain didn't think there was any importance to all being these names being found in 1 tomb. possibly because of the Mariemene ossuary was not related to Mary Magdalene and there is no literature with judas as the son of Jesus.
This is getting very interesting I think as time goes on more and more of the facts will come together. Although it may be Years before we know whether or not the James ossuary is part of this tomb. we might be rethinking some of the bible. In a good way!
If you have been keeping up on Dr. Tabors blog you will know they are doing more test and research as we speek and we should be finding out more here soon.one way or the other this has been quite an event. Makes me want to hop a jet to Jerusalem :)
Ben
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Name: betty47 •
Date: 03/25/07 22:14 |
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A: Yes. Very interesting indeed. Thank you for all your notes.
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