Name:Alexandra •
Title: Jesus died and was risen three days later! •
Date posted: 02/27/07 23:08
Q: Jesus' purpose in coming here was to offer the perfect, ONE-TIME sacrifice on the cross. Without shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins.
Jesus is alive and in heaven at the right hand of God the Father. He did not marry or father children.
I do NOT believe ANYONE who claims otherwise.
I notice that the Jesus/Mary Magdalene heresy is being promoted as well. I have royal ancestry myself, and I do not believe for one minute that I am descended from Christ Himself!
I am a Bible-believing Christian. The Bible (King James--Authorized Version) is the Word of God and it's completely true!
(Funny, I'd expected this stuff to come out of Rennes-le-Chateau in France!)
Name:Peas •
Date: 02/28/07 6:44
A: Plausable deniability
Name:jesusismysaviour87 •
Date: 02/28/07 7:03
A: Amen!
Name:Pat •
Date: 02/28/07 12:44
A: was born on December 25th.
-was considered a great traveling teacher and master.
-had 12 companions or disciples.
-performed miracles.
-was buried in a tomb.
-after three days he rose again.
-his resurrection was celebrated every year.
-was called “the Good Shepherd.”
-was considered “the Way, the Truth and the Light, the Redeemer, the Savior, the Messiah.”
-was identified with both the Lion and the Lamb.
-his sacred day was Sunday, “the Lord’s Day,”.
-he had his principal festival on what was later to become Easter, at which time he was resurrected.
-his religion had a Eucharist or “Lord’s Supper.”
Well if you guessed Jesus Christ, well, YOU’D BE WRONG!!
In fact all of the above are attributes to … MITHRA, a Roman-Persian God who existed hundreds of years before Christ.
Are these facts of Jesus?
- God was his father
- He was born in a cowshed.
- A human woman, a virgin, was his mother.
- His birth was prophesized by a star in the heavens.
- At a marriage ceremony, he performed the miracle of converting water into wine.
- He was powerless to perform miracles in his hometown.
- His followers were born-again through baptism in water.
- He rode triumphantly into a city on a donkey. Tradition records that the inhabitants waved palm leaves.
- He had 12 disciples.
- He was accused of licentious behavior.
- He was killed near the time of the Vernal Equinox, about MAR-21.
- He died “as a sacrifice for the sins of the world.”
- He was hung on a tree, stake, or cross.
- After death, he descended into hell.
- On the third day after his death, he returned to life.
- After death, he descended into hell.
- On the third day after his death, he returned to life.
- The cave where he was laid was visited by three of his female followers.
- He later ascended to heaven.
- His titles: God made flesh. Savior of the world Son of God.
- He is “God made man,” and equal to the Father.
- He will return in the last days.
- He will judge the human race at that time.
- Humans are separated from God by original sin. The godman’s sacrificial death reunites the believer with God and atones for the original sin.
Well if you guessed Jesus Christ, again, YOU’D BE WRONG!!
In fact all of the above are attributes are to … OSIRIS-DIONYSUS, an Egyptian God that existed thousands of years before Jesus Christ allegedly came around.
Name:ollypop •
Date: 02/28/07 13:24
A: Pat,
Very well put!
Yet the interest in Christianity and Christ himself is as strong as always despite discoveries such as a tomb which could possibly be of importance.
I believe the Bible is the most important Christina book obviously but, it must be examined in the right context just like this discovery
Name:blp1949 •
Date: 02/28/07 16:49
A: My thoughts as well i believe Jesus not man
Name:joshua adesina •
Date: 02/28/07 21:15
A: I AM NOT MOVED BY PEOPLE'S OPINION ABOUT ANYTHING ,I EXAMINE CRITICALLY AND HOLD ON TO WHAT I BELIEVE,TOO MUCH STUDIES IS MAKING PEOPLE TO BEHAVE FUNNY(NOTE ,I AM CONDEMING RESEARCHES),THE HOLY BIBLE IS MY YARDSTICK AND I WILL NOT DEVIATE TILL I DIE.
Name:Kerry •
Date: 02/28/07 22:11
A: I am a Bible-believing Christian. The original manuscripts werent' written in Elizabethton english. The Bible says that Jesus was without sin. Choosing a wife and fathering children isn't a sin. The scriptures say that not all is revealed. Whether he was and did doesn't affect my faith.
Allowing Jesus the freedom to be completely human but without sin doesn't make anyone less Christian (a follower of Christ).
Name:thelord3003 •
Date: 02/28/07 23:13
A: Where in the Bible says that after Christ died he decended into hell? Let me know!
Name:Pat •
Date: 03/01/07 13:43
A: Name: joshua adesina • Date: 02/28/07 21:15
Joshua wrote :
A: I AM NOT MOVED BY PEOPLE'S OPINION ABOUT ANYTHING ,I EXAMINE CRITICALLY AND HOLD ON TO WHAT I BELIEVE,TOO MUCH STUDIES IS MAKING PEOPLE TO BEHAVE FUNNY(NOTE ,I AM CONDEMING RESEARCHES),THE HOLY BIBLE IS MY YARDSTICK AND I WILL NOT DEVIATE TILL I DIE.
Joshua:
The stories of the Bible evolved slowly over centuries before the existence of orthodox religions. Many belief cults spread stories and myths probably handed down by oral tradition from generation to generation before people wrote them down. Many of the stories originally came from Egyptian and Sumerian cults. All of these early religions practiced polytheism, including the early Hebrews. Some of the oldest records of the stories that later entered the Old Testament came from thousands of small cylinder seals depicting creation stories, excavated from the Mesopotamia period. These early artifacts and artworks (dated as early as 2500 B.C.E.) established the basis for the Garden of Eden stories a least a thousand years before it impacted Hebrew mythology.
There is a lot of issues that people will not even face in the bible.
Name:Kluggy •
Date: 03/02/07 16:21
A: What a sad soul you are.
Name:factfinding •
Date: 03/03/07 7:05
A: Was Jesus in the grave for exactly three days and three nights?
"Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth" (Matthew 12:38-40).
Since Jesus claimed to be the Messiah, the Jews demanded a sign of Him to prove His claim. Jesus could give them no better proof that He was the Christ than the literal fulfillment of the well-known sign of Jonah, Luke 11:30. If this sign were not literally fulfilled, it would prove unto them that He was not the Messiah. This was the only sign Jesus ever gave them to prove His Messiahship. Hence the great need for Him to do exactly what He promised them to do.
Modern interpreters of the Bible make Jesus Christ a liar. They say Jesus was crucified on Good Friday, buried about sundown the same day, and arose on the next Sunday about daybreak in contradiction to the Scriptures! Any schoolboy knows that this is only two nights and one day. If He were crucified on Good Friday and arose on Sunday morning as they say, then He did not literally fulfill the sign of Jonah. If He did not fulfill this sign as He promised the Jews, then He was an impostor and not the Messiah! In other words, Jesus Christ lied to the Jews about His burial and resurrection.
For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth" (Matthew 12:38-40).
Factfinding:
Do some of us really believe that Jonas was in a whale belly or in a big fish for 3 days or nights?
Would one not die from all these gastric juices? How gluey and what could be the purpose? It must stink. What in the hell did poor Jonas do to deserve this?
However what if Jonas was in a submarine or some type of underwater boat?
After all God at the time had fiery military vehicles to blast of Israel enemies and to take Elijah, Jacob and Enoch into atmosphere and into space?
What if the text really meant that like Jonas, Jesus took some sort of submarine and went really deep into the caves of the under watered earth to visit those who are bound there.
Was there and are there still people condemn to live there.
Now that make more sense.
Maybe hell is there and in could be a place pretty hot being closer to the core nucleus of the planet.
Name:mardideles •
Date: 03/03/07 12:43
A: This tomb DOES NOT CHANGE MY FAITH IN CHRIST
WILL THIS CHANGE YOUR WALK WITH CHRIST?
-Christ is just a symbol of God, of someone we believe that guides us for good and brings good to us.
Your question is a non sense for non christians, like budhist, muslims, etc.
What is about the website is the actual studies of Jesus Christ Tomb, and the site did not provoke a change in views for Jesus Christ.
But I believe Christ aka God or Budha, etc, gives us wisdom, and to those who accept wisdom will not be blinded from truth, yes of course you believe new technology comes from wisdom, and you of course you accept new technologies in your daily life.
The problem is when Technologies and Discoveries try to tackle our Faith we tend not to believe it. But everyday we depend on it, from turning on your TV, talking to your mobile phone, or browsing the net. But we disbelieve it the moment it tackles our religion and our faith.
I repeat that to know more about God you must be open to Wisdom. Actually Wisdom is God... People with great Wisdom are indeed closest to GOD.
Name:Santiago •
Date: 03/03/07 19:26
A: Pat:
You must be somewhat confused with your allegations about Mithra.
"As the protector of truth and the enemy of error, Mithra occupied an intermediate position in the Zoroastrian pantheon as the greatest of the yazatas, the beings created by Ahuramazda to aid in the destruction of evil and the administration of the world. He was thus a divinity of the realms of air and light, and, by transfer to the moral realm, the manifestation of truth and loyalty. As the enemy of darkness and evil spirits, he protected souls, accompanying them to paradise, and was thus a redeemer. Because light is accompanied by heat, he was the promoter of vegetation and increase; he rewarded the good with prosperity and annihilated the bad."
http://en.wikipedia-.org/wiki/Mithra
Although- I admit there are some far-fetched similarities, I believe your theory can be dismissed.
As for Dionysos, I will provide this quote, followed by a URL:
"D was not merely a god of wine, but a god of paradox; he was the god of the civilized theater, but also the god of wild, orgiastic behavior and drunkenness. He was a god of fertility, but also a god who comforted the dying. He is depicted sometimes as a maniacal, destructive figure, and at other times as an innocent child; sometimes as a bearded man, other times as an effeminiate youth. He is a god of sensuality and experience: "Dionysism throws itself wholeheartedly into savagery in seeking to possess and contact the supernatural." [Dan.GLE, 150] And, it is: "...an expression of the sensual joys of life unrestrained by the state and unchanneled by the patriarchal family." [Eva.GE, 37] Sum it up: Dionysism is a religion that celebrates the destruction of boundaries and the blurring of categories. It is no more like Christianity than Buddhism. So how is it that some argue that D and Christ are twins?"
*D = Dionysos
http://www.tekton-ics.org/copycat/dionysus.html-
Name:Pat •
Date: 03/04/07 11:33
A: Santiago • Date: 03/03/07 19:26 wrote:
A: Pat:
You must be somewhat confused with your allegations about Mithra.
..................-.....Dionysus
Santiago:
I- still stand on by facts and here are the similarities
Dionysus Bacchus similarities to Jesus
Place where Jesus started:
Jesus was from Nazareth, Israel, then the Christian faith spread throughout world.
Place where Dionysus Bacchus started:
The Dionysus (aka Dionysos) religion is generally considered to have begun in Thrace and spread throughout the known world, to Greece, Egypt, and Rome, where he was called Bacchus.
However, it might be that the deity's origin was in the Mediterranean, in Minoan Crete, as Dionysus was one of the names of gods discovered on the Linear B tablets of Mycenae.
Time of Jesus:
Jesus lived approximately 2,000 years ago, probably c. 4 BCE - c. 30.
Time of Dionysus Bacchus :
The worship of Dioynsus dates back several centuries BCE in Greece. The historian Livy mentions the faith in Rome as early as 186 BCE. with the mysteries formally recognized under Julius Cesar in the mid first century BCE
Jesus of Royal Descent and born of a virgin :
Of royal descent, Jesus was born of a virgin, Mary in a stable or cave (the Apocryphal Gospel Protevangelion says in a cave, and the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem is still located in a cave).
Dionysus Bacchus Of Royal descent and born of a virgin:
Dionysus Bacchus was born of the virgin Semele; his father was the supreme god Zeus. Some sources say he was placed in a manger and reared in a cave
Jesus Life was about :
Jesus warned of 'stumbling blocks' along the way (1 Cor. 1: 23 ; Rev. 2: 14).
Dionysus Bacchus Life was about:
Dionysus is a life-death-rebirth deity.
Jesus was named and also identified as:
Jesus is called the Christ; King of Kings; Beginning and the end (Alpha and Omega) Revelation 1: 8 ); Only Begotten Son; Saviour; Redeemer; Sin Bearer; Anointed One; the Way, the Truth and the Life; Light of the World; Messiah; Son of Man; the Word; the Word made Flesh; Lamb of God; Resurrected One; Good Shepherd; King of Kings; associated with fish ('Ichthys'); the Word; Master; Lord; Rabbi (teacher); the Most High God; Prince of Peace; Son of Righteousness; Lion of the Tribe of Judah; identified as 'the seed of the woman bruising the serpent's head'.
Jesus is the second person of the Christian Trinity: (1) God, the Father, (2) Jesus the Son, (3) the Holy Ghost.
Dionysus Bacchus was named and also identified as:
Dionysus was sometimes identified with the lamb; King of Kings; Only Begotten Son; Saviour (Sôtêrios); Redeemer; Sin Bearer; Anointed One; Alpha and Omega.
Dionysos was identified by Greek writers with the Egyptian god Osiris, the Roman Liber, the Thracian Sabazios, the Arabian Orotatl and various other non-Greek gods."
The way Jesus died :
Jesus died painfully, pierced by a spear, crucified on a cross,
The way Dionysus Bacchus died:
Of the Roman God Liber (aka Dionysus, or Bacchus) Christian father Firmicus Maternus writes that his followers believe 'he was intercepted and killed,' and his murderers, 'chopped his members up into pieces and ... devoured them.' An event which his worshipers celebrate in 'recurring sacred rights celebrated every two years,' in which, 'They tear a live bull with their teeth, representing the cruel banquet [at which the God was eaten.]'
Also there is an amulate with Dionysus Bacchus cruxcified
He was a sacred king God killed and eaten in a eucharistic ritual for fecundity and purification.
Jesus Beleifs were :
Baptism: Christians from at least the time of St Paul understood immersion in water as a death-like experience, and emergence from the water they took as the beginning of a new life.
Eucharist: Sacred meal of Blood and Body of the God.
Jesus Christ was 'without sin'. Considered both human and divine; omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent.
Christ claimed: "I am the Resurrection".
He referred to himself as having existed before his birth on earth. Jesus will return on the last day to judge the living and the dead.
Some features: A future reward in heaven or punishment in Hell; a day of judgment; a general resurrection; the need for repentance for sin; salvation requires faith in the Saviour; belief in angels and of evil spirits; belief that disease and sickness is caused by evil spirits; a past war in heaven between good and bad angels; free will; God is considered the 'Word'
Scriptures speak of "the blind leading the blind, "a new heaven and a new earth", "living water", "all scripture is given by inspiration of God", "all scripture is profitable for doctrine", "to die is great gain".
Fasting forms a part of the religion.
The act of being born again is present.
Dionysus Bacchus beleifs:
The Mysteries included: a sacred meal; a myth about the death of the god; salvation.
Dionysus was worshipped, along with other deities, at Eleusis, site of the Eleusinian Mysteries. There was a strong soteriological element of the Mysteries: "It was the common belief in Athens that whoever had been taught the Mysteries [at Eleusis] would, when he died, be deemed worthy of divine glory.
Hence all were eager for initiation."
Scholiast (ancient commentator) on The Frogs, by Aristophanes (c. 446 BCE - 385 BCE), 158
"It looks as if those also who established rites of initiation [into the mysteries] for us were no fools, but that there is a hidden meaning in their teaching when it says that whoever arrives uninitiated in Hades will lie in mud, but the purified and initiated when he arrives there will dwell with gods."
Plato (c. 427 BCE - c. 347 BCE), Phaedo, 69 c
"In Italy, in the third or fourth century BC, texts written on gold plates and buried with the dead, describe the souls of Dionysus followers in the afterlife, drinking not from one particular spring in Hades, but from another cool pool – and that will give them divinity and eternal life." Source: Pagan Origins of the Christ Myth
"There was usually the meal of mystic foods – grains of all sorts at Eleusis, bread and water in the cult of Mithra, wine (Dionysus), milk and honey , raw bull's flesh in the Orphic Dionysus-Zagreus cult."
'Paganism', in The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume XI
Baptism: "at all events, at the Apollinarian and Eleusinian games they are baptized; and they presume that the effect of their doing that is their regeneration and the remission of the penalties due to their perjuries. Among the ancients, again, whoever had defiled himself with murder, was wont to go in quest of purifying waters."
Tertullian (born c. 150 or 160 - died between 220 and 240 CE)
Name:archaeologist992000 •
Date: 03/04/07 11:39
A: A many of you already know, early Christianity, is referred to as the Jesus Movement until the first Church was founded by Paul. Until the founding of teh first Christian Ministry by Paul at Antioch, there were several versions of Christianity in the very early period and until there was the main Gospels were written and compiled. This early period of Xhristianity has many sources usually referred to Collectively as Q (short for the German word Quelle (the well)). Some of the parts of Q have been verified by the findings of the Nag Hamadi Scrolls, the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Aprocypha's, etc... that have popped up thorughout history. The existence of these alternate texts to the main 4 Gospels could be seen as cultural and religious bifurcation points for establishing the different Christian Churches. As well as alternate resources that have yet to be discovered. In some of these texts are obvious references to family members of Jesus, Jesus being married, Jesus being homosexual, etc... These were all merely different takes from a time period when information took decades to travel around and take effect. So, if you can show that Jesus' lost tomb is now located, why not? There is no circumstance in any text or even the bible that shows anythign to the contrary. We know more about earlier religious leaders and have specific information on the birth and death places of Buddha, Muhammad, Zoroaster, Plato, Aristotle, etc... Why should we not assume that this isn't the tomb...
Name:Pat •
Date: 03/04/07 11:39
A: More than twenty beings invested with divine honor (deified) -- have come forward and presented themselves at the bar of the world with their credentials, to contest the verdict of Christendom, in having proclaimed Jesus Christ, "the only son, and sent of God:"
Twenty Messiahs, Saviors, and Sons of God, according to history or tradition, have, in past times, descended from heaven, and taken upon themselves the form of men, clothing themselves with human flesh, and furnishing incontestable evidence of a divine origin, by various miracles, marvelous works, and superlative virtues; and finally these twenty Jesus Christs (accepting their character for the name) laid the foundation for the salvation of the world, and ascended back to heaven.
1. Chrishna of Hindostan.
2. Budha Sakia of India.
3. Salivahana of Bermuda.
4. Zulis, or Zhule, also Osiris and Orus, of Egypt.
5. Odin of the Scaudinavians.
6. Crite of Chaldea.
7. Zoroaster and Mithra of Persia.
8. Baal and Taut, "the only Begotten of God," of Phenicia.
9. Indra of Thibet.
10. Bali of Afghanistan.
11. Jao of Nepaul.
12. Wittoba of the Bilingonese.
13. Thammuz of Syria.
14. Atys of Phrygia.
15. Xaniolxis of Thrace.
16. Zoar of the Bonzes.
17. Adad of Assyria.
18. Deva Tat, and Sammonocadam of Siam.
19. Alcides of Thebes.
20. Mikado of the Sintoos.
21. Beddru of Japan.
22. Hesus or Eros, and Bremrillah, of the Druids.
23. Thor, son of Odin, of the Gauls.
24. Cadmus of Greece.
25. Hil and Feta of the Mandaites.
26. Gentaut and Quexalcote of Mexico.
27. Universal Monarch of the Sibyls.
28. Ischy of the Island of Formosa.
29. Divine Teacher of Plato.
30. Holy One of Xaca.
31. Fohi and Tien of China.
32. Adonis, son of the virgin Io of Greece.
33. IxiOn and Quirinus of Rome.
34. Prometheus of Caucasus.
35. Mohamud, or Mahomet, of Arabia.
These have all received divine honors, have nearly all been worshiped as Gods, or sons of God; were mostly incarnated as Christs, Saviors, Messiahs, or Mediators; not a few of them were reputedly born of virgins; some of them filling a character almost identical with that ascribed by the Christian's bible to Jesus Christ; many of them, like him, are reported to have been crucified; and all of them, taken together, furnish a prototype and parallel for nearly every important incident and wonder-inciting miracle, doctrine and precept recorded in the New Testament, of the Christian's Savior. Surely, with so many Saviors the world cannot, or should not, be lost.
Bacchus of Egypt, Bacchus of Greece, Adonis of Greece, Chrishna of India, Chang-ti of China, Chris of Chaldea, Mithra of Persia, Sakia of India, Jao Wapaul (a crucified Savior of ancient Britain), were all born on the twenty-fifth of December, according to their respective histories.
Chrishna is represented to have been born at midnight on the twenty-fifth of the month Savarana, which answers to our December, and millions of his disciples celebrated his birthday by decorating their houses with garlands and gilt paper, and the bestowment of presents to friends.
It was once common for the women in Rome to perambulate the streets on the twenty-fifth of December, singing in a loud voice, "Unto us a child is born this day."
The twenty-fifth of December, then, it will be observed, was marked as the birthday of the incarnated Gods, Saviors, and Sons of God, of many of the religious systems of antiquity, long prior to the birth of Christ.
And why his birth was fixed at that date is not hard to account for. According to the celebrated Christian writer Mr. Goodrich, the Christian world had no chronology and recorded no dates for several centuries after the commencement of the Christian era. (See History of all Nations, p. 23.) No event of their history was marked by dates for nearly four hundred years. Hence, the time of Christ's birth is altogether a matter of conjecture, as is also every other event noticed in the Christian bible. This is proved by the fact that the ablest Christian writers and chronologists differ to the extent of thirty-five hundred years in fixing the time of every event in the bible. A Mr. Kennedy presents us with three hundred different chronological systems, by different Christian writers, all founded on the bible, and proving that the date of its various events are inextricably involved in a labyrinth of doubt, darkness and uncertainty.
NEARLY all religious history is prophetic of the coming of Saviors, Messiahs, Redeemers, and virgin-born Gods. Most religious countries, and more than a score of religious systems, had a standing prophecy that a divine deliverer would descend from heaven and relieve them from their depressed state, and ameliorate their condition. And in most cases that prophecy was believed to have been fulfilled by the birth of a being, who, as he approached the goal of moral and intellectual manhood exhibited such remarkable proof of superiority of mind as to be readily accepted as the promised Messiah.
Name:Pat •
Date: 03/04/07 11:53
A: The Mithras cult arose c. 600 BCE, before the rise of Rome.
When the Christ myth was new Mithras and Mithraism were already ancient. Worshiped for centuries as God's Messenger of Truth, Mithras was long revered by the Persians (Zoroastrianism) and the Indians (see the Vedic literature).
Christian apologist Justin Martyr (1 Apologia, 66, 4) denounces the devil for having sent a God so similar to Jesus – yet preceding him.
Every year in Rome, in the middle of winter, the Son of God was born once more, putting an end to darkness.
Every year at first minute of December 25th the temple of Mithras was lit with candles, priests in in white garments celebrated the birth of the Son of God and boys burned incense.
Mithras was born in a cave, on December 25th, of a virgin mother. God, in the form of light, entered a virgin, Anahita.
"In Armenian tradition, Mithras was believed to shut himself up in a cave from which he emerged once a year, born anew. The Persians introduced initiates to the mysteries in natural caves, according to Porphyry, the third century neoplatonic philosopher. These cave temples were created in the image of the World Cave that Mithras had created, according to the Persian creation myth."
With twelve disciples, Mithras travelled far and wide as a teacher and illuminator of men.
At about age 30 he began his ministry, offering salvation based on faith, compassion, knowledge and valour.
He had 12 companions or disciples and was considered a great travelling teacher and master.
Mithras performed miracles.
The god remained celibate throughout his life, and valued self-control, renunciation and resistance to sensuality among his worshippers. Mithras represented a system of ethics in which brotherhood was encouraged in order to unify against the forces of evil.
Mithras was known as: Saviour; Son of God; Redeemer; Lamb of God; the Way, the Truth and the Light; Messiah; Light of the World.
He also was called the Good Shepherd and was identified with both the lion and the lamb.
Mithras was known as the God of Truth, and Lord of Heavenly Light, and said to have stated 'I am a star which goes with thee and shines out of the depths'."
Mithras was buried in a tomb from which he rose again from the dead – an event celebrated yearly (spring equinox) with much rejoicing.
After the earthly mission of this god had been accomplished, he took part in a Last Supper with his companions before ascending to heaven, to forever protect the faithful from above.
Mithras of Persia atoned for mankind, and prepared for the salvation of mankind through slaying the primaeval bull—the first sacrifice ... his celebrations at the spring and autumn equinoxes were associated with crucifixion on a tree.
These were the Persian New Year festivities described in the scriptural book of Esther, and involved the crucifixion of the old years, considered wicked, so that a new and uncorrupted year could take its place.
This was seen as an annual rehearsal of the eschaton when the wicked world is finally replaced by the purity of the original creation of Ahuramazda. Christian writers speak of Mithras being slain, and yet do not say how.
Mithras was one part of a holy trinity.
The worshippers of Mithras held strong beliefs in a celestial heaven and an infernal hell. They believed that the benevolent powers of the god would sympathize with their suffering and grant them the final justice of immortality and eternal salvation in the world to come.
They looked forward to a final day of Judgment in which the dead would resurrect, and to a final conflict that would destroy the existing order of all things to bring about the triumph of light over darkness
The followers of Mithras kept the Sabbath holy, eating sacramental meals in remembrance of Him. The sacred meal of bread and water, or bread and wine, was symbolic of the body and blood of the sacred bull.
"He who will not eat of my body and drink of my blood will not be made one with me or I with him, the same shall not know salvation."
Persian Mithraic text
Baptism in the blood of the bull (taurobolum) – early baptism 'washed in the blood of the Lamb' – late baptism by water.
Mithraic baptism was recorded by the early Christian author Tertullian: "Mithra there brings in the symbol of a resurrection." Also, Tertullian: "
The Devil, whose business is to pervert the truth, mimics the exact circumstances of the divine sacraments in the mysteries of idols. He himself baptizes some, that is to say, his believers and followers; he promises forgiveness of sins in the sacred fount, and thus initiates them into the religion of Mithra."
Mithraic rituals brought about the transformation and salvation of his adherents – an ascent of the soul of the adherent into the realm of the divine.
From the wall of a Mithraic temple in Rome: 'And thou hast saved us by shedding the eternal blood.'
Like today's clergy, Mithrasian priests acknowledged a 'Last Supper' and performed baptisms first with water and then 'with the spirit'.
According to D Jason Cooper, (Mithras: Mysteries and Initiation Rediscovered, Red Wheel, 1996), the Mithrasians had a 'Last Supper' which, like the modern Communion or Eucharist, included wine as a symbol of sacrificial blood.
"Bread in wafers, or small loaves marked with a cross, was used to symbolise flesh," he writes.
"As to the future, the initiate into Mithraism was guaranteed a righteous judgment and a happy immortality.
He felt secure about the judgment, for Mithra, the guardian of truth, would preside at the great assize which determined his eternal destiny.
According to the picture suggested by the Emperor Julian, Mithra was also the guide who assisted the soul on its heavenly journey and, finally, like a fond father, welcomed the soul to its heavenly home."
"... reborn and created for delights," and "you have saved us by the shedding of eternal blood."
Inscriptions in a Mithraeum (temple of Mithras) in Rome
Now ain't this pretty similar?
Name:roy •
Date: 03/04/07 11:57
A: I wrote from Istanbul Turkiye.
Referring your topic related to James Cameron’s new documentary about Jesus Christ. I describe my ideas as the following;
Jesus was a human being who was created resembling creation as Adam, made as God‘s speacial envoy and word. He was subject to death and resurrection as all other humans at the dooms day.[3:59]
He was not killed or crucified but the scenery was recepted as if he was crucified . In reality, he was never hanged, the person who hanged was resembled to him in the views of the enemy Israelites.[4:157,158]
He was not killed by enemies but survived till the natural death. [19:33]God has taken his life. They were not defeated by the enemies but on the contrary him and his supporter disciples and israelites defeated the enemies.[61:14]
These are the statements written 1430 years ago by Quran. It is believed by heart by billions of muslims, as a prerequisite to be accepted into Islam. Maybe out of bias, or fear of sameness they prefer to ignore what is claimed. It is surprising that modern world is barely aware of this fact or they blind their eyes with superstition. Christ, he disciples and his followers were also muslims who were ordered with salat (prayer) and zekat ( voluntary wealth distribution).
The views above is supported with the related verses of Quran as below. Some of the ideas has been tought by various western writers,which are noted as well.
You may further make your research in english Quran at the link below.
For example ; word of “Christ” I found this link: http://www.kuranmeali.com/arama.asp?kelim-e=Christ&meal=yusufali&sure=hepsi
word- of “Jesus” I found this link:
http://www.kuranmeali.com/arama.asp?ke-lime=jesus&meal=yusufali&sure=hepsi
Sura- - 4 Women (Al-Nesaa')
[4:157] And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah's messenger - They slew him not nor crucified, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain,
[4:158] Instead, GOD raised him to Him; GOD is Almighty, Most Wise.
[4:159] Everyone among the people of the scripture was required to believe in him before his death. On the Day of Resurrection, he will be a witness against them.
[4:171] O people of the scripture, do not transgress the limits of your religion, and do not say about GOD except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was a messenger of GOD, and His word that He had sent to Mary, and a revelation from Him. Therefore, you shall believe in GOD and His messengers. You shall not say, "Trinity." You shall refrain from this for your own good. GOD is only one god. Be He glorified; He is much too glorious to have a son. To Him belongs everything in the heavens and everything on earth. GOD suffices as Lord and Master.
Sura - 19 Mary (Maryam)
[19:33] And peace be upon me the day I was born, the day I die, and the day I get resurrected."
[19:34] That was Jesus, the son of Mary, and this is the truth of this matter, about which they continue to doubt.
[19:35] It does not befit GOD that He begets a son, be He glorified. To have anything done, He simply says to it, "Be," and it is.
[19:36] He also proclaimed, "GOD is my Lord and your Lord; you shall worship Him alone. This is the right path."
*19:36 This is similar to the statement attributed to Jesus in the Gospel of John 20:17.
Sura - 5 The Feast (Al-Ma'edah)
[5:72] Pagans indeed are those who say that GOD is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah himself said, "O Children of Israel, you shall worship GOD; my Lord and your Lord." Anyone who sets up any idol beside GOD, GOD has forbidden Paradise for him, and his destiny is Hell. The wicked have no helpers.
*Look at the sameness of Kuran: Sura - 5 ( The Feast ) Al-Ma'edah and Bible Matta 7:21-23
*5:72-76 In John 20:17, we see that Jesus taught that he was neither God, nor the son of God. Many theologians have concluded, after careful research, that today's Christianity is not the same Christianity taught by Jesus. Two outstanding books on this subject are "The Myth of God Incarnate" (The Westminster Press, Philadelphia, 1977) and The "Mythmaker" (Harper & Row, New York, 1986). On the front jacket of "The Mythmaker" we read the following statement:
" ...Hyam Maccoby presents new arguments to support the view that Paul, not Jesus, was the founder of Christianity....it was Paul alone who created a new religion through his vision of Jesus as a divine Saviour who died to save humanity."
Sura - 3 The Amramites ( Ali-'Imran)
[3:55] Thus, GOD said, "O Jesus, I am terminating your life, raising you to Me, and ridding you of the disbelievers. I will exalt those who follow you above those who disbelieve, till the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is the ultimate destiny of all of you, then I will judge among you regarding your disputes.
[3:59] The example of Jesus, as far as GOD is concerned, is the same as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, "Be," and he was.
[3:60] This is the truth from your Lord; do not harbor any doubts.
Sura - 61 The Column (Al-Suff)
[61:6] Recall that Jesus, son of Mary, said, "O Children of Israel, I am GOD's messenger to you, confirming the Torah and bringing good news of a messenger to come after me whose name will be even more praised (Ahmad)." Then, when he showed them the clear proofs, they said, "This is profound magic."
*Sameness of Sura - 61 The Column (Al-Suff) and Bible İsiah 45:21,22
Psalm 99:9 Timothy 1:17 good news fro sneding another prophet called Ahmad(Hz Mohammad) or Pheraklid (praised)= Ahmad
[61:14] O you who believe, be GOD's supporters, like the disciples of Jesus, son of Mary. When he said to them, "Who are my supporters towards GOD," they said, "We are GOD's supporters." Thus, a group from the Children of Israel believed, and another group disbelieved. We helped those who believed against their enemy, until they won.
Sura - 3 The Amramites ( Ali-'Imran)
[3:51] "GOD is my Lord and your Lord; you shall worship Him alone. This is the right path."
[3:52] When Jesus sensed their disbelief, he said, "Who are my supporters towards GOD?" The disciples said, "We are GOD's supporters; we believe in GOD, and bear witness that we are submitters / muslims."
*3:51 This is precisely what Jesus is quoted to say throughout the New Testament. See for example the Gospel of John 20:17, and the book "Jesus: Myths and Message" by Lisa Spray, Ch. 4 (Universal Unity, Fremont, CA 1992).
Name:Pat •
Date: 03/04/07 12:00
A: XVI. -- MITHRA OF PERSIA CRUCIFIED, 600 B.C.
This Persian God, "slain upon the cross to make atonement for mankind, and to take away the sins of the world."
He was reputedly born on the twenty-fifth day of December, and crucified on a tree.
The list of crucified Gods is full.
Devatat of Siam, Ixion of Rome, Apollonius of Tyana in Cappadocia, are all reported in history as having died the death of the cross.
ORIGIN OF THE BELIEF OF THE CRUCIFIXION OF GODS
It has always been presumed that death, and especially death by crucifixion, involved the highest state of suffering possible to be endured by mortals. Hence, the Gods must suffer in this way as an example of courage and fortitude, and to show themselves willing to undergo all the affliction and misery incident to the lot, and unavoidable to the lives of their devoted worshipers. They must not only be equal, but superior to their subjects in this respect. Hence, they would not merely die, but choose, or at least uncomplainingly submit to the most ignoble and ignominious mode of suffering death that could be devised, and that was crucifixion. This gave the highest finishing touch to the drama.
And thus the legend of the crucifixion became the crowning chapter, the aggrandizing episode in the history of their lives. It was presumed that nothing less than a God could endure such excruciating tortures without complaining.
CRUCIFIXION OF CHRISHNA OF INDIA, 1200 B.C.
CRUCIFIXION OF THE HINDOO SAKIA, 600 B.C.
THAMMUZ OF SYRIA CRUCIFIED, 1160 B.C.
CRUCIFIXION OF WITTOBA OF THE TELINGONESIC, 552 B.C.
IAO OF NEPAUL CRUCIFIED, 622 B.C.
HESUS OF THE CELTIC DRUIDS CRUCIFIED, 834 B.C.
QUEXALCOTE OF MEXICO CRUCIFIED, 587 B.C.
QUIRINUS OF ROME CRUCIFIED, 506 B.C.
(AESCHYLUS) PROMETHEUS CRUCIFIED, 547 B.C.
CRUCIFIXION OF THULIS OF EGYPT, 1700 B.C.
CRUCIFIXION OF INDRA OF TIBET, 725 B.C.
ALCESTOS OF EURIPIDES CRUCIFIED, 600 B.C.
ATYS OF PHRYGIA CRUCIFIED, 1170 B.C.
CRITE OF CHALDEA CRUCIFIED, 1200 B.C
BALI OF ORISSA CRUCIFIED, 725 B.C.
MITHRA OF PERSIA CRUCIFIED, 600 B.C.
Name:ArmyStallion05 •
Date: 03/05/07 0:43
A: We are all God's creation and if you cast judgement on any fellow man and his belief, then your are wrong. God created all beings and gave us the capacity to learn and to be something great. It klills me to know that people wont even listen, and have an open mind to what all is out there. What the heck, were all wrong...but I do KNOW one thing and that is The Truth Will Stand When The World Is On Fire! It seems to be getting aweful hot lately too!
Name:bigpundaddy •
Date: 03/05/07 0:50
A: Authorized version eh. mmmmmm interest to state that. Who authorized it? You, your Pastor, Jesus or God himself? I am really curious who did. Also, did you find that in the fiction or non fiction section? Bought online or at your local christian store?
Name:bigpundaddy •
Date: 03/05/07 0:52
A: AmyStallion, Questions for you? Do you know what a pagan or wiccan is? Do you know the definition of open minded?
Name:Gerri •
Date: 03/05/07 1:01
A: It's clear from your comments that you have neither studied the bible OR the history of religion. Yours are the grade school, blind faith comments my girlfriends used to make after a ruler lashing from the nuns. Jesus message was to worship GOD - not him. (As a Jew, that he was - he would have found this as blasphemous as worshiping a golden calf - and yet we pin him up on the cross and worship him in a way HE would have found abhorent. How ironic. Further - we do not worship HIS sabbath - Fri -Sat at sundown. We worship on Sundays because "Ra" the sun god - was worshiped by the Roman's on Sunday and when they moved from polytheism to Roman Catholic - THEY changed Jesus' sabbath to Sunday. Read a book - PLEASE! Surely royalty can afford a trip to Barnes and Noble.
I recommend you purchase "From Jesus to Christ" - a documentary about the history of religion (who christianity formed). It's available on PBS. The King James bible (1500s) is an altered version of the original Roman Catholic version that was in Latin. King James took it upon himself to delete a few sections and convert the language to English. If you believe it word for word - that's your perogative - however, it's only testimony to your poor education in the history of how Christianity evolved.
The truth is that you do not KNOW what he did or didn't do - married - fathered children. You weren't there. It's just what you BELIEVE - big difference. What people believe - doesn't make it TRUE....particularly when there is much compelling evidence to the contrary.
But fear not - the church does such a good job brainwashing people - that scientific proof positive will be denied by "believers"
Such people remind me of a guy and his son who were on line in front of me at the post office. He called Al Gore a liar and said Global Warming was BS. Does that make him right - hmmmmmmm I think I'm gonna stick with the Harvard scholars and believe that that guys was simply an opinionated ignoramus - but hey - that's his problem.
The EVIDENCE is compelling open your eyes and be OPEN to TRUTH. Jesus would've wanted it that way.
Name:bigpundaddy •
Date: 03/05/07 1:13
A: Nice way of putting that Gerri.
Name:Wes Boll •
Date: 03/05/07 14:17
A: I respect your faith,but you should be asking, Why, who and where are the bones, doesn't matter if they belonged to Jesus, can't be just digging up bones of an entire family and not know where we put them and how we marked them!!!Wow
Name:OpenMinded •
Date: 03/05/07 16:15
A: Jesus is alive and in heaven at the right hand of God the Father. He did not marry or father children.
I don't think anyone is questioning weather Jesus is alive or real. However, unless you were with Jesus, I beg to differ that you know for a fact that he never got married or fathered a child.
Name:anne •
Date: 03/05/07 20:53
A: Alexandra,
Jesus' purpose was not to be perfect...but to be human!!Yes he has shed blood and tears and remission of sins...and why are you to know that he has acceptted a wife and fathered a child... so be it!!!!!He was and is a MAN!!!!!!!!!I I do not believe your royaly ancestry, for there is no other than the Lord.. Royalty is just a made-up game that well-dressed peasants play!!!Funny you are not a Christian
Name:HeatherC0320 •
Date: 03/05/07 21:00
A: Pat, you rock!
Name:shofyke •
Date: 03/06/07 22:49
A: so the word of god didn't appear until the 17th century(i think), and in england at that. any holy book named after a political figure i surely give credence to.
Name:KRS •
Date: 03/06/07 22:54
A: Pat, a lot of these attributions to Mithra are from books written well after the New Testament (with Mithra, if I recall correctly, they are using fourth and fifth century works); thats why scholars have, since the fifties, have realized that the various gnostic origin theories of the Bible are, at best, an exercise in begging the question.
Name:KRS •
Date: 03/06/07 22:57
A: Gerri, the King James is not based on the Latin, and you make some other errors, things I've noted on this site so many times I'd rather not type it out again. You probably need to find a better source of data than the PBS special you're touting; I saw part of it, and as an NT scholar, I really wasn't impressed.
Name:pat7the7avenger •
Date: 03/07/07 4:33
A: Kind of funny how much of the worlds' histoy was influnced by those who had no knowledge of the specific god you choose to exonorate. Funny how quickly Rome fell after Nero forsake science and latched on to the catholic church. Please look out across the vastness of History and relize we are but a speck therin. Connect the dots in the evolution of our many modernday faiths, and what this discovery implies should it prove inconclusivly true. For me the simple deductions used to draw the conclusion that this was the tomb of The Christ are enough. Sorry if you need a 2,ooo year old smoking gun. All I need is an open mind.
Thank you. and bless your passion for your faith
Name:roy •
Date: 03/07/07 6:43
A: Overloving Jesus by his followers brought him to the stage sharing power of God. It remains the same mistake and danger for Muslims to their prophets or imams.
The findings of him may or may not be the real tomb of Jesus( personally I think remote possibility~ because if it was; it should have been known and respected by people for two thousand years).
However the importance of the concept is Christ was not any God. God strongly forbids paradise; anyone who claims Christ or any partner share to His Throne. Hundreds of verses written on this topic only because of people have diverted from the true path. Early Christians have changed the Bible according to power hungry Byzantene ruler & bishops wishes at year around 300 AD. The hypothesis and proof of Christ created fatherless but to be a mere human being is very important to us from this point. Quran persistently renounces the notion of “Trias” and defines it as the only unforgivable sin could be made to Him.
2 AL BAQARAH (The Heifer). 213
3 AL `IMRAN (The Family of `Imran). 19
Each of the primary religions teach the same general rule, but perhaps uses different words and stories to give examples of how to live those virtues.
2 AL BAQARAH (The Heifer). 213 Mankind was one single nation, and Allah sent Messengers with glad tidings and warnings; and with them He sent the Book in truth, to judge between people in matters wherein they differed; but the People of the Book, after the clear Signs came to them, did not differ among themselves, except through selfish contumacy. Allah by His Grace guided the Believers to the Truth, concerning that wherein they differed. For Allah guides whom He will to a path that is straight.
3 AL `IMRAN (The Family of `Imran). 19 The religion before Allah is Islam (submission to his will): nor did the People of the Book dissent therefrom except through envy of each other, after knowledge had come to them. But if any deny the Signs of. Allah, Allah is swift in calling to account.
Name:loganathompson •
Date: 03/07/07 7:09
A: "It's clear from your comments that you have neither studied the bible OR the history of religion."
Oh, Oh, gerri, apparently you would be one of who is true when it is said, "You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving....they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes" MT 13:14,15
"Jesus message was to worship GOD - not him. (As a Jew, that he was - he would have found this as blasphemous as worshiping a golden calf - and yet we pin him up on the cross and worship him in a way HE would have found abhorent. How ironic."
Gerri....dude c'mon man. have you never read the following passages.." Then Jesus declared, ' I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never go thirsty." JN 6:35, or what about, "..he said(Jesus), ' Do you believe in the Son of Man?' ,'Who is he sir?', the man asked....Jesus said, ' You have now seen him; in fact, he is the one speaking with you.' Then the man said, ' Lord, I believe', and he worshipped him." JN 9:35-38
"Further - we do not worship HIS sabbath - Fri -Sat at sundown. We worship on Sundays because "Ra" the sun god - was worshiped by the Roman's on Sunday and when they moved from polytheism to Roman Catholic - THEY changed Jesus' sabbath to Sunday."
Acts 20:7 "On the first day of the week we came together to break bread."
Christ rose on the first day of the week-thats why christians came together on sunday instead of saturday, to celebrate the resurrection of the Lord. And they did this before Constantine's edict in 312 a.d.
"The truth is that you do not KNOW what he did or didn't do - married - fathered children. You weren't there. It's just what you BELIEVE - big difference. What people believe - doesn't make it TRUE....particularly when there is much compelling evidence to the contrary."
And what compelling evidence is there to the contrary? The gospel of phillip? the gospel of judas? both examples where written in the 2nd century a.d., long after all the eye witnesses were dead. The 4 gospels, matthew, mark, luke, john were written when the eyewitness were still alive. Mark being the earliest, Matthew, Luke were next, and then John was written by the apostle John who was with Jesus from the beginning of his minisrtry. eyewitness accounts are the most trustworthy evidence we have.
"But fear not - the church does such a good job brainwashing people - that scientific proof positive will be denied by "believers."
Again, what 'scientific' proof positive do you have?
"The EVIDENCE is compelling open your eyes and be OPEN to TRUTH. Jesus would've wanted it that way."
Well gerri, looks like you need to look at the evidence again for yourself. and take a little bit of your own advice, "the evidence is compelling, open your eyes and be open to truth........Jesus would've wanted it that way"
thank you
Name:Howard •
Date: 03/07/07 14:12
A: Jesus was a man who became a G-d. It is a process that G-d the Father has enacted as His Work. The work is known as "bringing to pass the immortal lives of His children" That's just happens to be you and me. The fact that it has occured prior to it happening to Jesus who becomes a Christos is not alarming, rather in keeping with "things being in G-ds time" Only the Father can reveal the Son and only the Son can reveal the Father. As all of creation is "of Him, by Him and through Him", we are also like Him. This is in direct keeping with what He said about us as "being made in His Image". The great awakening or "resurrection" is just as much one of a "conscious awakening from the dead" as it also is an "in the flesh" commanded experience for us to have. If one is able to read John the Revelator with the proper Keys to the Revelation one is going to see how the Primitive Church "taught to those who where, of a specific age, righteous enough and men of good spirit the Mysteries of Christ. " Indeed Johns writings although very purposed veiled, coded and hidden in understanding to this very day from those theologians and religious naysayers who made "Jesus into a God and worshipped Him" rather than listen to what he said. IS JOHN THE REVELATOR'S PERSONAL EXPERIENCE OF SACRED INITIATION INTO THE MYSTERIES OF CHRIST, THE CHURCH OF THE FIRST BORN. The Great Conqueror described in his writings is to be YOU and I, overcoming the flesh, the carnal man, the natural enemy of G-d and becoming a spiritual being, Born of the Spirit.
All of His Children, regardless of what ever religious belief system they have is invited by the Ruach ha Kodesh, the Holy Spirit to be given the free gift of Eternal Life, the very fruit of the Tree of Life and tho become Perfect as even He is Perfect, a Holy Nation, an Eternal Being, made in the Image of the Father, who like the rightful son or daughter of the Father has become just like in whom they are a reflected image. This is happening right now before your very eyes even as you read this message. It is GOD THE FATHER OF ALL CREATIONS WORK, not some church or religious charismatic. It is one on ONE, it is "The Mark", it is the Gift, it is the Pearl of Great Price for Jew and Gentile, all of His Children...and it is His Gift. Jeremiah said that in the end times "Man would be taught directly of G-d" no need for human intervention. If you want to experiene your ETERNAL NATURE, How you are to become
like Christ, a messiah. Then begin the process today by : repenting of your old belief systems that have held your soul captive to false doctrines and the arm of flesh belief systems. Wipe the slate clean, the world is not flat. We are spirit not flesh. Ask G-d regardless of what your current religious persuasion might be, Jew, Gentile, Taoist, Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, athiest, what ever, for the cognitive experience of Being Born of the Spirit so that you actually KNOW GOD and become a co-creator with Jesus who also became a Christ and eternal being. Finally, keep the only two important conscious head spaces there really are; Love One Another, and Love God with all of your mind, might and heart. In so doing you also, like many every day have their "appointed time" and "resurrection" with the Father.
Name:loganathompson •
Date: 03/07/07 16:14
A: I am amazed...really. where do you people come up with these ideas!......anyways, you people who say that later christians turned Christ into God, (alot of you people would say the council at Nicea did it, when in fact they didnt change anything, just confirmed what everybody already knew to be the truth about Christ as recorded in the Bible.), what do you say to the Bible verses like John 8:58 that reads, "I tell you the truth,' Jesus answered,'before Abraham was born, I am!'' Which is a reference to Exodus chapter 3:14 where Moses asks God, " Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, 'The God of our fathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, ' What is his name?' Then what shall I tell them?" God said to moses,' I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM' has sent me to you."
Another example of Jesus claiming to be God is that, who has the authority to forgive sins? Only God alone. 2 Chr. 7:14 states," if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from Heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land." And yet, to you alls surprise Jesus claimed to have the authority to forgive sin! Mark 2:10 says,"But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority to forgive sins..." See also Mt 9:1-8
Thats just a few examples from scripture. And if your gonna make a claim about what Jesus said or didn't say, make sure you use his words. not your own imagination.
(seriuosly! have any of you people who make these claims actually read the entire new testament?)
Name:sadinoel •
Date: 03/07/07 16:18
A: You all don't need to argue theology when SCIENCE already refutes the data completely.
It's a bogus "study".
Who are you going to believe? A movie director and the "Naked Archaeologist"" or 99.999% of the rest of the scientific community.
Ok case closed let's move on nothing to see here people. :)
Name:sweetandsimple •
Date: 03/07/07 23:21
A: says you...lol
Name:mark •
Date: 03/08/07 11:13
A: Hi Alexandra,
At no time did anyone involved in the making of this film say that Jesus was not ressurected!
Christians, you all have a responsibility to understand the difference between ressurection and ascension!
It was the bodily ressurection that redeemed the world not a bodily ascension!
Why couldn't Jesus have been a normal jewish man who would have been expected to be married and have started a family by His age at the time of His death? They would have travelled with Him and need not have been a hinderance to His ministry.
Why would a "Bible believing Christian" have a problem accepting either one of these points?
sincerely and courteously,
mark
Name:roy •
Date: 03/11/07 9:29
A: Why should God be so complex not to be understood by common man? Does He address only to the scholars? If so why He held the common responsible what He says and forbids? Is He so cruel to punish those from which reasons that common people has no clue to understand?
Islam has brought the most clear understanding of God and definition of Christ for whom who wants to find out or whom God wants to reveal and let him be.
Saying God is three in one context but, One made up of three, no one can realise what is going on… How is three agree on ruling on universe that there is no disagreement between them? If God decides to extinct Jesus and Virgin Mary who will stop Him from it? How three in spiritual and matter decided to come together to send somepart of three among those miniscule sized peasants and didnt guess one piece of God will be killed there by torture? Wasnt there any other way to save people from sins rather to sacrifice one piece of God? How was it done before Christ (are they only comunity to be saved as majority of jews also claim as favored nation)? One of gods gave up divine and such sort of things are just fables from the Greek mythology. Is there any thema difference in stories with Zeus who hypothetically lived on Olympos, some other god had stolen fire from him, and such nonsence and complex stories. (Some Greeks gave rebirth a new religion on that belief and ask recognition by parliament in Greece today.)
Please be simple and come to your senses to find real God in your heart with peace. It will calm you down if you found Him. Searching thousands of pages but not spending time on the most referred and read book ~Quran is so big loss for you.
Christian Church claims The gospels, most especially John, indicate that Christ was not taken because the "peasants" (actually the temple guard and probably some Roman soldiers as well) over powered Him, but because He went to his death willingly. “
Guard, soldier ect.. has no difference than peasant comparing with God as former are made up all from human. No matter what is the position of human ~ temple guard or Roman soldiers or even todays atomic powered soldiers may not possibly over power even small evidence of God let alone God himself.
“Going to his death willing” is another made-up story. Too unlogical to be devine. All science, philosophy, antropology, history, logic, nature, biolgy, cosmology, physics, theology (christianity except this incident) strives the essence of existance not extinction, natural selection, wish of living - not dieing.
On the contrary Christ must ask God to live on to save his people by preaching (He lived and won over non believers~Islamic view, otherwise no christians would have been mentioned today~my opinion). Moses, and Abraham has been saved by God with two miracles ( Red sea divide and fire becoming serene.)
If our prophet does something “going to his death willingly” we must wish the same thing as good followers. Why don’t you dare to wish some unlogical thing then?;
We will all go death willingly to save others!!
I only believe the brotherhood to be adhered by man of any race, wealth, religion or sex. Beause they are equal and only be better than other in terms of observing God’s wishes. The religions come from same God although Jewish and Christians refuse to accept it, Islam is saying similar things plus improvement open to scientific evidence and criticism of any sort (except depicting or dishonoring holy figures). Actually encouraging debate.
God does not need peoples recognition of the latest versions of what He says. That’s why He says keep your own faith as Christian or Jew but don’t commit sin of Trinity or false claims against Me or Jesus because I am the only One. He does not accept religions from those who curses Him in that Trias way, and will not forgive those (only sin NOT to be forgiven) .
If the trias is not accepted at Byzantene time Council 300 AD. It would have been less likely to get acceptance by plural gods greek society of that time and would have been difficult to unite them. Imperialism was on the scene that time, not now.
On the other hand if Church didnt defend their position strongly against other religions, there would have been no reason of existence of them and the priests and kings had to give up huge wealth and power over society. The latter religion forbids any devine class, rabbis, or super powered ruler, not to mention some papacy who claim to be the shadow and replica of God on earth! (another form of Imperialism)
I hope it helps the claims of Jesus was a dieable, marryable, child conceive causable and tomb burriable (yet to be proven) human with flesh and blood created by God’s word to Mary.
Name:Red •
Date: 03/11/07 10:24
A: Roy , islam is just another brainwashing religion. Ive read the Koran.... several times. And while there are some moments of profound wisdsom, they dont come close to the Moral teachings Jesus gave.
Reading the Koran with an open mind, leaves me with a general impression that the Author was really just Pissed off.......
Name:Pat •
Date: 03/11/07 13:12
A: Red wrote:
Roy , islam is just another brainwashing religion. Ive read the Koran.... several times. And while there are some moments of profound wisdsom, they dont come close to the Moral teachings Jesus gave.
Reading the Koran with an open mind, leaves me with a general impression that the Author was really just Pissed off.......
Pat wrote:
The Koran, Mohammed and Islam were a Vatican creation in order to have them eventually exterminate the Jews and eventually uproot the Jews from Israel.
The Vatican wants to control Israel and rule the world from Jerusalem on the Temple Mount. Eventually the Muslims mosques will be blown up by Vatican Orders to send of the last blow.
The Vatican would love to see millions of Muslims and Jews die by war confrontations and perhaps by a few nuclear bombs. They still want to evangelize everyone to Jesus Christ and to Catholic dogmas and doctrines at any costs.
How the Vatican created Islam' link posted bellow
Arabs fell victim to one of the most clever plans ever devised by the powers of darkness. Early Christians went everywhere with the gospel setting up small churches, but they met heavy opposition. Both the Jews and the Roman government persecuted the believers in Christ to stop their spread. But the Jews rebelled against Rome, and in 70 AD, Roman armies under General Titus smashed Jerusalem and destroyed the great Jewish temple which was the heart of Jewish worship...in fulfillment of Christ's prophecy in Matthew 24:2.
The persecution against Christians was useless as they continued to lay down their lives for the gospel of Christ.
A counterfeit "Christian" religion to destroy the work of early Christian and Jews was created began in the writings of the 'early church fathers'.
"It was through their writings that a new religion would take shape. The statue of Jupiter in Rome was eventually called St. Peter, and the statue of Venus was changed to the Virgin Mary. The site chosen for its headquarters was on one of the seven hills called 'Vaticanus', the place of the diving serpent where the Satanic temple of Janus stood.
"The great counterfeit religion was Roman Catholicism, called 'Mystery, Babylon the Great, the Mother of Harlots and Abominations of the Earth'- Revelation 17:5. She was raised up to block the gospel, slaughter the believers in Christ, establish religions, create wars and make the nations drunk with the wine of her fornication as we will see.
"Three major religions have one thing in common - each has a holy place where they look for guidance. Roman Catholicism looks to the Vatican as the Holy City. The Jews look to the wailing wall in Jerusalem, and the Muslims look to Mecca as their Holy City. Each group believes that they receive certain types of blessings for the rest of their lives for visiting their holy place. In the beginning, Arab visitors would bring gifts to the 'House of God', and the keepers of the Kaaba were gracious to all who came. Some brought their idols and, not wanting to offend these people, their idols were placed inside the sanctuary. It is said that the Jews looked upon the Kaaba as an outlying tabernacle of the Lord with veneration until it became polluted with idols.
"In a tribal contention over a well(Zamzam) the treasure of the Kaaba and the offerings that pilgrims had given were dumped down the well and it was filled with sand - it disappeared. Many years later Adb Al-Muttalib was given visions telling him where to find the well and its treasure. He became the hero of Mecca, and he was destined to become the grandfather of Muhammad. Before this time, Augustine became the bishop of North Africa and was effective in winning Arabs to Roman Catholicism, including whole tribes. It was among these Arab converts to Catholicism that the concept of looking for an Arab prophet developed.
"Muhammad's father died from illness and sons born to great Arab families in places like Mecca were sent into the desert to be suckled and weaned and spend some of their childhood with Bedouin tribes for training and to avoid the plagues in the cities.
"After his mother and grandfather also died, Muhammad was with his uncle when a Roman Catholic monk learned of his identity and said, "Take your brother's son back to his country and guard him against the Jews, for by god, if they see him and know of him that which I know, they will construe evil against him. Great things are in store for this brother's son of yours."
"The Roman Catholic monk had fanned the flames for future Jewish persecutions at the hands of the followers of Muhammad. The Vatican desperately wanted Jerusalem because of its religious significance, but was blocked by the Jews.
"Another problem was the true Christians in North Africa who preached the gospel. Roman Catholicism was growing in power, but would not tolerate opposition. Somehow the Vatican had to create a weapon to eliminate both the Jews and the true Christian believers who refused to accept Roman Catholicism. Lookng to North Africa, they saw the multitudes of Arabs as a source of manpower to do their dirty work. Some Arabs had become Roman Catholic, and could be used in reporting information to leaders in Rome. Others were used in an underground spy network to carry out Rome's master plan to control the great multitudes of Arabs who rejected Catholicism. When 'St Augustine' appeared on the scene, he knew what was going on. His monasteries served as bases to seek out and destroy Bible manuscripts owned by the true Christians.
"The Vatican wanted to create a messiah for the Arabs, someone they could raise up as a great leader, a man with charisma whom they could train, and eventually unite all the non-Catholic Arabs behind him, creating a mighty army that would ultimately capture Jerusalem for the pope. In the Vatican briefing, Cardinal Bea told us this story:
'A wealthy Arabian lady who was a faithful follower of the pope played a tremendous part in this drama. She was a widow named Khadijah. She gave her wealth to the church and retired to a convent, but was given an assignment. She was to find a brilliant young man who could be used by the Vatican to create a new religion and become the messiah for the children of Ishmael. Khadijah had a cousin named Waraquah,, who was also a very faithful Roman Catholic and the Vatican placed him in a critical role as Muhammad's advisor. He had tremendous influence on Muhammad.
'Teachers were sent to young Muhammad and he had intensive training. Muhammad studied the works of St. Augustine which prepared him for his "great calling." The Vatican had Catholic Arabs across North Africa spread the story of a great one who was about to rise up among the people and be the chosen one of their God.
'While Muhammad was being prepared, he was told that his enemies were the Jews and that the only true Christians were Roman Catholic. He was taught that others calling themselves Christians were actually wicked impostors and should be destroyed. Many Muslims believe this.
'Muhammad began receiving "divine revelations" and his wife's Catholic cousin Waraquah helped interpret them. From this came the Koran. In the fifth year of Muhammad's mission, persecution came against his followers because they refused to worship the idols in the Kaaba.
'Muhammad instructed some of them to flee to Abysinnia where Negus, the Roman Catholic king accepted them because Muhammad's views on the virgin Mary were so close to Roman Catholic doctrine. These Muslims received protection from Catholic kings because of Muhammad's revelations.
'Muhammad later conquered Mecca and the Kaaba was cleared of idols. History proves that before Islam came into existence, the Sabeans in Arabia worshiped the moon-god who was married to the sun-god. They gave birth to three goddesses who were worshipped throughout the Arab world as "Daughters of Allah" An idol excavated at Hazor in Palestine in 1950's shows Allah sitting on a throne with the crescent moon on his chest.
'Muhammad claimed he had a vision from Allah and was told, "You are the messenger of Allah." This began his career as a prophet and he received many messages. By the time Muhammad died, the religion of Islam was exploding. The nomadic Arab tribes were joining forces in the name of Allah and his prophet, Muhammad.
'Some of Muhammad's writings were placed in the Koran, others were never published. They are now in the hands of high ranking holy men (Ayatollahs) in the Islamic faith.'
"When Cardinal Bea shared with us in the Vatican, he said, these writings are guarded because they contain information that links the Vatican to the creation of Islam. Both sides have so much information on each other, that if exposed, it could create such a scandal that it would be a disaster for both religions.
"In their "holy" book, the Koran, Christ is regarded as only a prophet. If the pope was His representative on earth, then he also must be a prophet of God. This caused the followers of Muhammad to fear and respect the pope as another "holy man."
"The pope moved quickly and issued bulls granting the Arab generals permission to invade and conquer the nations of North Africa. The Vatican helped to finance the building of these massive Islamic armies in exchange for three favors:
1. Eliminate the Jews and Christians (true believers, which they called infidels).
2. Protect the Augustinian Monks and Roman Catholics.
3. Conquer Jerusalem for "His Holiness" in the Vatican.
"As time went by, the power of Islam became tremendous - Jews and true Christians were slaughtered, and Jerusalem fell into their hands. Roman Catholics were never attacked, nor were their shrines, during this time. But when the pope asked for Jerusalem, he was surprised at their denial! The Arab generals had such military success that they could not be intimidated by the pope - nothing could stand in the way of their own plan.
"Under Waraquah's direction, Muhammad wrote that Abraham offered Ishmael as a sacrifice. The Bible says that Isaac was the sacrifice, but Muhammad removed Isaac's name and inserted Ishmael's name. As a result of this and Muhammad's vision, the faithful Muslims built a mosque, the Dome of the Rock, in Ishmael's honor on the site of the Jewish temple that was destroyed in 70 AD. This made Jerusalem the 2nd most holy place in the Islam faith. How could they give such a sacred shrine to the pope without causing a revolt?
"The pope realized what they had created was out of control when he heard they were calling "His Holiness" an infidel. The Muslim generals were determined to conquer the world for Allah and now they turned toward Europe. Islamic ambassadors approached the pope and asked for papal bulls to give them permission to invade European countries.
"The Vatican was outraged; war was inevitable. Temporal power and control of the world was considered the basic right of the pope. He wouldn't think of sharing it with those whom he considered heathens.
"The pope raised up his armies and called them crusades to hold back the children of Ishmael from grabbing Catholic Europe. The crusades lasted centuries and Jerusalem slipped out of the pope's hands.
"Turkey fell and Spain and Portugal were invaded by Islamic forces. In Portugal, they called a mountain village "Fatima" in honor of Muhammad's daughter, never dreaming it would become world famous.
"Years later when the Muslim armies were poised on the islands of Sardinia and Corsica, to invade Italy, there was a serious problem. The Islamic generals realized they were too far extended. It was time for peace talks. One of the negotiators was Francis of Assisi.
"As a result, the Muslims were allowed to occupy Turkey in a "Christian" world, and the Catholics were allowed to occupy Lebanon in the Arab world. It was also agreed that the Muslims could build mosques in Catholic countries without interference as long as Roman Catholicism could flourish Arab countries.
"Cardinal Bea told us in Vatican briefings that both the Muslims and Roman Catholics agreed to block and destroy the efforts of their common enemy, Bible-believing Christianm missionaries. Through these concordats, Satan blocked the children of Ishmael from a knowledge of Scripture and the truth.
"A light control was kept on Muslims from the Ayatollah down through the Islamic priests, nuns and monks. The Vatican also engineers a campaign of hatred between the Muslim Arabs and the Jews. Before this, they had co-existed peacefully.
"The Islamic community looks on the Bible-believing missionary as a devil who brings poison to the children of Allah. This explains years of ministry in those countries with little results.
"The next plan was to control Islam. In 1910, Portugal was going Socialistic. Red flags were appearing and the Catholic Church was facing a major problem. Increasing numbers were against the church.
"The Jesuits wanted Russia involved, and the location of this vision at Fatima could play a key part in pulling Islam to the Mother Church.
"In 1917, the Virgin appeared in Fatima. "The Mother of God" was a smashing success, playing to overflow crowds. As a result, the Socialists of Portugal suffered a major defeat.
"Roman Catholics world-wide began praying for the conversion of Russia and the Jesuits invented the Novenas to Fatima which they could perform throughout North Africa, spreading good public relations to the Muslim world. The Arabs thought they were honoring the daughter of Muhammad, which is what the Jesuits wanted them to believe.
"As a result of the vision of Fatima, Pope Pius XII ordered his Nazi army to crush Russia and the Orthodox religion and make Russia Roman Catholic." A few years after he lost World war II, Pope Pius XII startled the world with his phoney dancing sun vision to keep Fatima in the news. It was great religious show biz and the world swallowed it.
"Not surprisingly, Pope Pius was the only one to see this vision. As a result, a group of followers has grown into a Blue Army world-wide, totaling millions of faithful Roman Catholics ready to die for the blessed virgin.
"But we haven't seen anything yet. The Jesuits have their Virgin Mary scheduled to appear four or five times in China, Russia, and major appearance in the U.S.
"What has this got to do with Islam? Note Bishop Sheen's
statement: "Our Lady's appearances at Fatima marked the turning point in the history of the world's 350 million Muslims. After the death of his daughter, Muhammad wrote that she "is the most holy of all women in Paradise, next to Mary."
"He believed that the Virgin Mary chose to be known as Our Lady of Fatima as a sign and a pledge that the Muslims who believe in Christ's virgin birth, will come to believe in His divinity.
"Bishop Sheen pointed out that the pilgrim virgin statues of Our Lady of Fatima were enthusiastically received by Muslims in Africa, India, and elsewhere, and that many Muslims are now coming into the Roman Catholic Church."
A: Red,
So pity to have read Quran but couldn’t get the warm message out of it. It reveals itself as a bride only to those who is chosen. Sorry for the misfortune. You ve better not ridicule the Author, He may be angry with you.
There are several miracles mentioned in Quran at year of 620 AD. Some barely understood today, and many of the mysteries yet to be solved.
-Expansion of universe
-Creation from a nucleus
-Eclipses, paths of planets, galaxies
-Dual sexes of everything created
-Relativity of Time
-Flowing journey of sun in a path
-Source of light of sun; reflecting feature of moon
-Possibility of lunar voyage
-Surface layers to the pit
-Elipsoid shape of earth, arctic basins are at lower altitude
-Feature of wind as carrier of seed
-Measure of rain fall equals 500 million liter/year
-Water curtain at waterpasses between seas
-Flow of current at deep sea, darkness of depth
-Feature of mountains as balancing weight to the earth surface
-Movements of mountains as clouds, departing continents
-Earthquake break lines
-Evolution of petroleum
-Photosynthesis of plants
-Breathing is uneasy at increased altitudes
-Environmental problems as a result of man fault. Warning “keep the balance”
-Sexes in plants
-Female bee making the hove
-Communication ability in birds and ants…
-Texture of man from earth and water
-Creation starting from water
-Phases of baby creation in the womb
-Identification on tips of fingers
-Love between the couples
-Groups intermingle with marriages
-Spread of mankind from city of Mecca
-Sabeans, Magrib dam catastrophy,
-Yemen Ad Comunity Extinction Lost Pillars found recent years
-Lut Comunity, Sodom Gomorah being the lowest point on earth surface Jordan
-Haman name (Vice president for Paroah) revelas recently Egypt
-Paroah of Egypt killed at Red sea finding. His corpse analysed as hit to the rocks and left at sea for a long time
-Old testament and new testament correction, amendment of stories
-Romans good news of victory over Persians within 3-9 years that happend.
-Transporting of matter in light speeds
-Possibility of death of stars and sun
-Boiling of oceans as a scientific result of global warming caused by icebergs melt or at resurrection day
-Big bang and big inner downfall
-Seven layers above sky, and beneath earth down to pit.
These miraculous explanations may not awe you still? however you better check if they pass in Quran or not. There were many miracles performed at the time of Prophet Mohammed, but we cant prove them today scientifically, so I let them unmentioned.
Pat wrote: The Koran, Mohammed and Islam were a Vatican creation.
Roy Wrote:
There is no limit to imagination, and obsession of money, fame and satanic stories. Keep up these nonsence so that both catholic, muslim, christian, jews etc.. benefit more with publicity and curiosity.
Religion is something to be taken seriously by the vast majority of the universe. It makes nations and breaks them. Please be more careful.
Taking real names from history of holy people and institutions and adding fiction to them have made false heroes throughout centuries. But it made also great culprits to condemn themselves what they have done to billions of innocent peoples faith. There is no difference between bombing several temple and their made-up lies into beliefs.
My suggestion do not be vehicles to their evil purposes unless you truly believe in them.
These writers have nothing to loose with their conspiracy theories. You may check your ironic similar recent news comments on the website below. One difference they say they are making fun.
A: Roy,
Believe what you want. There is 1600 years of past Catholic Vatican terror.
The Bible and the Koran are full of attocities to keep the people in ignorance and in fear for full control of the masses.
